cherub rock test press

[geofolkers]

so it says 25 test copies pressed for the cherub rock but I notice them so often for sale. Ive got two of them. who else has one?

[manillascissor]

i have one copy

[Cool As Ice Cream]

do you have a test pressing, or a white label promo?

[manillascissor]

what’s the difference? i have a white label promo i guess. certainly not an acetate.

[geofolkers]

What’s the difference? I have two white labeled test presses

[Cool As Ice Cream]

well, if you can’t tell the difference, then you shouldn’t think there are only 25 copies. you should add the amount of white label promos.

the difference can’t always be told.
the main difference is why they were made. test pressings are very small runs (even smaller than 25 copies; i think 5 per test pressing is more realistic), with the intention to check if everything is ok. white label promos might look identical to test pressings, but they were pressed in larger amounts (hundreds), with the intention to be handed out as promotional items.
so if you found a copy, and you don’t know where it came from, and it’s just a record with a white label in a generic hut label sleeve, then it’s a white label promo. the fact that someone on ebay listed it as a \"test pressing\" does not make it a test pressing. you need to know the (true) story behind it before you can consider it a test pressing.

[manillascissor]

yeah, that’s my point. maybe i do own a test pressing and then it just got passed on as a white label promo. for these particular releases (SD 12\" singles), i think any test pressings were handled this way.

i used to own two copies of the machina 2LP promos. both IDENTICAL, except one read test pressing and one was blank. it was handwritten on the white label. i sold the one that said test pressing, because i like clean copies.

so, to me anyway, there is no difference (with respect to those two examples).

but like i’ve said before, if you take the tristessa 7\", for a specific example, that’s a test pressing because it was never meant to serve any promotional purposes (or porpoises, for that matter). it’s gotta be impossible to know if any of these SD 12\" wlps are test pressings versus wlps. i can go get a sharpie right now and turn my wlp into a test pressing. know what i mean?

one copy of my peel sessions comes with a reaction report. a piece of paper attached to it to describe any errors. but even that is just a piece of paper attached to the outside of a normal-looking wlp. does that make it a test pressing then?

i also have a dj report for my stand inside your love 12\" wlp, but i wouldn’t reclassify that as a test pressing. even though it very well could be. i guess it depends on the ultimate use of the vinyl.

i think the cherub rocks are all test presses mixed in with wlps. i don’t think you can distinguish the two. at least, no one has been able to yet…???

[Sven]

yeah, that’s my point. maybe i do own a test pressing and then it just got passed on as a white label promo. for these particular releases (SD 12" singles), i think any test pressings were handled this way.

i used to own two copies of the machina 2LP promos. both IDENTICAL, except one read test pressing and one was blank. it was handwritten on the white label. i sold the one that said test pressing, because i like clean copies.

so, to me anyway, there is no difference (with respect to those two examples).

but like i’ve said before, if you take the tristessa 7", for a specific example, that’s a test pressing because it was never meant to serve any promotional purposes (or porpoises, for that matter). it’s gotta be impossible to know if any of these SD 12" wlps are test pressings versus wlps. i can go get a sharpie right now and turn my wlp into a test pressing. know what i mean?

one copy of my peel sessions comes with a reaction report. a piece of paper attached to it to describe any errors. but even that is just a piece of paper attached to the outside of a normal-looking wlp. does that make it a test pressing then?

i also have a dj report for my stand inside your love 12" wlp, but i wouldn’t reclassify that as a test pressing. even though it very well could be. i guess it depends on the ultimate use of the vinyl.

i think the cherub rocks are all test presses mixed in with wlps. i don’t think you can distinguish the two. at least, no one has been able to yet…???[/quote:26ejc2qg]

1. yep: it’s very difficult with the SD 12"s. at least there was no WL promo for the SD 7"s so those are all test presses.

2. anyone, indeed, could have just written ‘test pressing’ on a WL LP for MACHINA, correct. Still, sometimes these TPs don’t yet have the matrix stamper or another matrix code than the finished and approved one and that could be a clue. I don’t think, as far as I know, this applies to TSP, but this is known for others band in collectors circles.

3. you might be able to tell the difference…
normally a true TP will not come with a generic sleeve or a sheet with info or bio/promo. these are usually in non-production sleeves and could come with a reference / check sheet for quality inspection of the pressing. these tend to get lost sometimes. especially in the UK WL promo 12"s were widely used in advance promotion. this has something to do with copyrights too in a way.

however: think about it….

if it SOUNDS like the official commercial release, the chance is immense these WL promo 12"s are in fact stamped from the same master. because: you would not want to promo out a non- approved copy/master, right? now, it’s pretty likely the mastering / pressing plant does a sterling job and the TP is right away approved. normally there are 5 – 10 TPs for any given release to be checked. if these are OK-ed then production is started. first with the WL 12"s promos and then with the commercial release form. so sonically there might be a way to tell any difference, however slight…

i know for a fact there’s a TP for MACHINA on which the A SIDE was not playable due to the massive bass levels in TEG. even now it’s massive, still. BC had them recut the A SIDE, at least. when confronted with the massive bass levels, BC in person told me: "well tough luck, it was even worse with the first cut"…

there are also releases (haven’t checked for TSP though) in which the matrix codes don’t match up for example, the A SIDE has a different code when compared with the B SIDE. normally these will match as the stampers for a pair. just imagine the codes do match on a WL copy but don’t on the first pressing of the commercial release, then the WL is definately a TP. that’s a clue somewhere down the line a new master / stamper was made with another matrix code.

4. Tristessa -> the 5 red ones are all true TPs, indeed.

5. PS -> a reaction form might indeed point in the direction of a TP. depends an which kind of form it is.

6. SIYL WL 12" -> the DJ sheet to me only confirms it was used as a WL promo 12". for TP use they would have used a different quality check form.

7. for the CR 12" -> if the TP was OK-ed first time around, then it’s virtually impossible to tell any difference, unless you know the lineage / provenance for sure. if the matrix codes are the same as the commercial release, then this would look like the first TP was perfect already. still: technically, the TPs and WLs will not have been mixed up, because the WLs were pressed only after the OK on the TPs. can you tell now? i guess not, onyl, maybe if you can hear any difference…or for sure know it’s the TP, because of the provenance.

[Cool As Ice Cream]

don’t they also try to destroy test pressings when they no longer need them?
maybe there simply aren’t any test pressings anymore for a lot of releases.

and i think that if you’re in the situation where you simply can’t tell, and where plenty of white label promos are known to exist, there is no reason to call it a test pressing. there is no point, and it’s most likely false.
the chance that it actually is a test pressing (i.e. pressed for the specific purpose of checking the quality) is tiny. first of all, one would have to assume that once the pressing was approved, they used the handful of test pressings as promos, instead of keeping them or destroying them. this is not a given. on top of that, the amount of test pressings is small compared to the amound of promos they pressed afterwards.

[Sven]

don’t they also try to destroy test pressings when they no longer need them?
maybe there simply aren’t any test pressings anymore for a lot of releases.

and i think that if you’re in the situation where you simply can’t tell, and where plenty of white label promos are known to exist, there is no reason to call it a test pressing. there is no point, and it’s most likely false.
the chance that it actually is a test pressing (i.e. pressed for the specific purpose of checking the quality) is tiny. first of all, one would have to assume that once the pressing was approved, they used the handful of test pressings as promos, instead of keeping them or destroying them. this is not a given. on top of that, the amount of test pressings is small compared to the amound of promos they pressed afterwards.[/quote:3euho3i9]

1. I don’t think those are per se destroyed, but discarded: yes. as was the case with the Tristessa 7" TPs. they were found by accident. i.e.: these were forgotten about. no longer of use, so forgotten…

2. agreed. provenance is everything. if it comes from the inside of the band or producer or label or from a mastering company such as Townhouse for example, you bet it will be legit as a TP. otherwise, you just can not tell and most most most likely it will be from the very first batch of the commercial pressing which is made with white labels to be used as promos.

[manillascissor]

1. yep: it’s very difficult with the SD 12"s. at least there was no WL promo for the SD 7"s so those are all test presses.

2. anyone, indeed, could have just written ‘test pressing’ on a WL LP for MACHINA, correct. Still, sometimes these TPs don’t yet have the matrix stamper or another matrix code than the finished and approved one and that could be a clue. I don’t think, as far as I know, this applies to TSP, but this is known for others band in collectors circles.

3. you might be able to tell the difference…
normally a true TP will not come with a generic sleeve or a sheet with info or bio/promo. these are usually in non-production sleeves and could come with a reference / check sheet for quality inspection of the pressing. these tend to get lost sometimes. especially in the UK WL promo 12"s were widely used in advance promotion. this has something to do with copyrights too in a way.

however: think about it….

if it SOUNDS like the official commercial release, the chance is immense these WL promo 12"s are in fact stamped from the same master. because: you would not want to promo out a non- approved copy/master, right? now, it’s pretty likely the mastering / pressing plant does a sterling job and the TP is right away approved. normally there are 5 – 10 TPs for any given release to be checked. if these are OK-ed then production is started. first with the WL 12"s promos and then with the commercial release form. so sonically there might be a way to tell any difference, however slight…

i know for a fact there’s a TP for MACHINA on which the A SIDE was not playable due to the massive bass levels in TEG. even now it’s massive, still. BC had them recut the A SIDE, at least. when confronted with the massive bass levels, BC in person told me: "well tough luck, it was even worse with the first cut"…

there are also releases (haven’t checked for TSP though) in which the matrix codes don’t match up for example, the A SIDE has a different code when compared with the B SIDE. normally these will match as the stampers for a pair. just imagine the codes do match on a WL copy but don’t on the first pressing of the commercial release, then the WL is definately a TP. that’s a clue somewhere down the line a new master / stamper was made with another matrix code.

4. Tristessa -> the 5 red ones are all true TPs, indeed.

5. PS -> a reaction form might indeed point in the direction of a TP. depends an which kind of form it is.

6. SIYL WL 12" -> the DJ sheet to me only confirms it was used as a WL promo 12". for TP use they would have used a different quality check form.

7. for the CR 12" -> if the TP was OK-ed first time around, then it’s virtually impossible to tell any difference, unless you know the lineage / provenance for sure. if the matrix codes are the same as the commercial release, then this would look like the first TP was perfect already. still: technically, the TPs and WLs will not have been mixed up, because the WLs were pressed only after the OK on the TPs. can you tell now? i guess not, onyl, maybe if you can hear any difference…or for sure know it’s the TP, because of the provenance.[/quote:17km6834]

Here is the reaction report I am referencing:

[Cool As Ice Cream]

hey, don’t forget to check out this thread: http://forum.spfreaks.com/viewtopic.php?p=22114

according to that thread, i own three cherub rock 12\" white label promos.
my collection also contains four copies of peel sessions WLP, one i am one WLP, one today WLP and one disarm WLP.

[geofolkers]

Thanks for sharing! Very helpful

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