This topic contains 152 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  marigold 4 years ago.

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  • #1672

    Cool As Ice Cream

    Hi,

    Derek and I ran into a bit of an issue while looking at the Siamese Dream vinyl reissue (in order to add its entry to the spfreaks.com collection). More about that later though.

    Could anyone who also bought the 2011 reissue of Siamese Dream on vinyl, and has opened it, or doesn’t mind opening their copy, please post the matrix codes that are on the 4 sides? This could really help us further. Thank you very much.

    B.

  • #43895

    request revoked.

  • #43896

    the thing is, i was checking the matrix codes, and they were a bit longer than i was expecting. a string of numbers, apparently random, was added. these are the ones i’m talking about, one on each side:
    5099967929016 Siamese Dream Disc 1 Side 1 A+R Dallas SPGII S-27899 RE-2 6.21.3.11 25.15.21
    5099967928910 Siamese Dream Disc 1 Side 2 S-27900 RE-2 19.21.3.11 13.25 4.9.3.11
    5099967929016 Siamese Dream Disc 2 Side 1 A+R Dallas SPGII S-27901 RE-2 12.9.3.11 13.25 16.21.19.19.25
    5099967929115 SIAMESE DREAM DISC 2-SIDE 2-Re1 S-27902 RE-3 23.5 12.15.22.5 25.15.21

    i found those strings of numbers at the end a bit weird. they didn’t have the same length, they weren’t spaced identically, etc. and all the numbers were between 1 and 26, which made me think of an alphabet code. so i checked if the numbers could mean anything when translated to words (1=a, 2=b, etc.), and, well, they do. check for yourself what secret messages they have sent out via these matrix codes.
    how weird.

    now i wonder who’s behind this.

  • #43897

    basically i was asking for the matrix codes of another copy, just to make sure all copies have the same codes, but in the mean time, i have found the matrix codes of another copy, and they’re identical. so i assume every copy has the same matrix codes.
    it wouldn’t hurt to double check, if anyone has another opened copy, but i think it’s already fair to assume all matrix codes are the same.

  • #43898

    Sven
    Spectator

    same matrix codes on my copy.
    nice find :)
    didn’t see that one coming, curious to say the least :)

  • #43899

    thanks for checking, sven.

    do you think billy knows about these?
    who would be able to add these codes to the matrix code? does it have to be someone at the record plant? the person who mastered the record for vinyl?

    i don’t think they serve any purpose. if they leave these numbers out, the matrix code would still contain enough information to do what it’s supposed to do.

  • #43900

    Sven
    Spectator

    thanks for checking, sven.

    do you think billy knows about these?
    who would be able to add these codes to the matrix code? does it have to be someone at the record plant? the person who mastered the record for vinyl?

    i don’t think they serve any purpose. if they leave these numbers out, the matrix code would still contain enough information to do what it’s supposed to do.[/quote:2zro1vtc]

    you’re welcome.

    i don’t think so as these are not very TSP-like messages.

    messages in the matrix code are known and usually these are done on purpose.
    i think to know these are made when the master is cut first (the mother) by the mastering engineer i.e. the person who cuts the first vinyl, not the mastering engineer as per the final master mix per se.
    but there might be a chance too these codes are stamped following the test pressing stage when the release codes are known and this might be done by the people making the final pressing plates for production.

  • #43901

    geofolkers
    Spectator

    What’s the secret message?!

  • #43902

    Sven
    Spectator

    do the math and be surprised…

  • #43903

    Sven
    Spectator

    SIDE A – FUCK YOU
    SIDE B – SUCK MY DICK
    SIDE C – LICK MY PUSSY
    SIDE D – WE LOVE YOU

    go figure…

  • #43904

    Sven
    Spectator

    most likely this was done by the mastering person a friend of mine told me and he’s in the business of cutting vinyls.

    can easily have been overlooked by the band / BC at the test pressing stage(s).
    (anyone already have a test pressing of this re-issue???) :)

    i’ve forwarded this issue to Cresfallen.com as the people are in touch with BC.

    anyone with a twitter account care to make a post on the rather curious etchings in the matrix code?

  • #43905

    Arthur
    Spectator

    :lol:

    Apparently a guy, previously making SP cd boots, changed his career, and is now working for this vinyl plant.

  • #43906

    Arthur
    Spectator

    anyone with a twitter account care to make a post on the rather curious etchings in the matrix code?[/quote:72j76l7z]
    Geo? :wink:

  • #43907

    Sven
    Spectator

    anyone with a twitter account care to make a post on the rather curious etchings in the matrix code?[/quote:3epk0au6]
    Geo? :wink:[/quote:3epk0au6]

    i mean: i’m just curious if BC might comment on this matter because this is SO unlike anything I know of as per TSP… these are so far off remarks… i’ve seen some cool run off groove / matrix code remarks before by some bands that are quite funny but this is just a little bit like… uhm, duh, dude, wtf?!

  • #43908

    i don’t think so as these are not very TSP-like messages.[/quote:1li28npy]
    well, i thought so too, while i was decoding them, but then i decoded "we love you", and that’s a very pumpkins-like message. they even had a song called , played live mainly during the resume the pose tour. so who knows? (they also have a song called "fuck you".)

    anyway, i don’t think BC is behind this at all.
    but that "we love you" is really out of place there. it doesn’t make sense when you put it next to the other messages.

  • #43909

    Sven
    Spectator
  • #43910

    Arthur
    Spectator

    and hope someone can leave a tweet on this matter as per BC’s notice and hopefully we’ll hear from them… :)[/quote:2zv0uqha]
    Don’t worry, it’s out there. :wink:

    http://twitter.com/spfreaks

  • #43911

    i also wonder what BC will think of this when he hears about it, assuming that he doesn’t know about these messages yet.
    and i agree. the messages are very immature.

  • #43912

    Sven
    Spectator

    and hope someone can leave a tweet on this matter as per BC’s notice and hopefully we’ll hear from them… :)[/quote:10q6bqdv]
    Don’t worry, it’s out there. :wink:

    http://twitter.com/spfreaks[/quote:10q6bqdv]

    No worries whatsoever and thanks!

  • #43913

    Sven
    Spectator

    i also wonder what BC will think of this when he hears about it, assuming that he doesn’t know about these messages yet.
    and i agree. the messages are very immature.[/quote:2ajrex3t]

    Agreed, totally.

    I just can not see BC Ok these things.

    Either: these remarks were not there yet on his test pressing.
    Or: he didn’t notice these remarks in the matrix.
    But: I can not imagine BC giving an OK to such immature, rather prank-like and stupid remarks in the run-off matrix groove of the major record re-issue release…

    I’m doing my best, amongst loads and tons and tons of work and writing and meetings to try to find out what happend. The Dutch part of EMI just declined to remark and went into looking for an answer. :)

  • #43914

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Hmmmm… Twitter message is deleted? WTF? :evil:

  • #43915

    did you put the decoded messages in your tweet? that would probably explain why it was deleted.

  • #43916

    Or: he didn’t notice these remarks in the matrix.[/quote:15ln82o7]
    well, who would notice that? they’re just numbers, aren’t they?

  • #43917

    Arthur
    Spectator

    No, I wrote \"Hidden messages on the reissue vinyl? WTF? <<then a link to this topic @spfreaks>>\". Maybe even the WTF is not allowed on Twitter? Actually, the SPfreaks twitter account is not run by me alone. Maybe one of the other guys has other plans with this news, and quickly deleted my tweet. I’ll have a look into this.

  • #43918

    geofolkers
    Spectator

    Sorry, we as a site won’t highlight this. It just too immature. The twitter is just highlighting the positive of sp and collecting through spfreaks.

  • #43919

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    i agree with geo and arthur that we should not \"advertise\" this on twitter. i have pretty much removed myself from twitter. i don’t understand it and don’t have time to put towards it.

    however, i do still have to uphold what i am responsible for, and that is uploading these two vinyl releases to the MyColletion portion of SPfreaks.

    i will obviously not be putting the vulgarity into the description, but the matrix codes are what they are, and will be represented here as such.

    big ups to bram for noticing these kinds of things. he sent me the codes awhile back and i was like, hmm, yeah, odd codes…..

  • #43920

    marigold
    Spectator

    Interesting detective work Bram….

    I wonder if these sorts of codes are put on all the vinyl pressed at that plant? Or several different ones at least. Who is the mastering person?

    I agree it’s immature…

    I think it’s great there is a twitter account set up – and awesome that @smashingpumpkin has recognised it! – perhaps set some sort of twitter rules/guidelines about what is tweeted, if there are a few of you using the same account.

  • #43921

    geofolkers
    Spectator

    Thanks for the support freaks! We have big things for spfreaks around the corner. With that being said we will be a positive sp site :)

  • #43922

    i think spfreaks should be mainly about collecting and all related freaky things, and not so much about being positive. there are enough websites around already that have made that their main selling point.

    i consider this matrix code message as a funny little fact. i don’t see what’s so wrong or negative about it. it’s there. well, ok, the message itself is negative, but reporting about it doesn’t have to be.
    (i can imagine it was put there by someone who doesn’t like the smashing pumpkins. that could explain it. like a sort of sneaky graffiti. from that point of view, it is negative. and it’s immature, no matter what the reason behind it is.)

    discovering a secret message in a matrix code is big spfreaks news to me. and in my opinion, more important than being a \"positive sp site\", whatever that is supposed to mean.
    and i don’t even think reporting about this would make spfreaks.com a negative sp site. i don’t see how it would make a difference, really.

    i’m not saying it should be on twitter necessarily. i don’t really care about that. but i do find it a bit weird that it was suddenly removed.
    i find these hidden messages quite weird, and all i want is to find out a bit more about it. where did it come from, mainly.

    that’s just my thoughts on this. it’s not my website, it’s not my twitter account. so carry on.

  • #43923

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    bram, i think you know there are enough negative websites around that claim to be supportive fans of the band, yet everything you read on the website is bitching and moaning etc. it’s a drag.

    this site doesn’t generate a lot of forum traffic, and honestly, probably never will. we could totally put this up as a leading story on our homepage, but even then, probably not many people will read it.

    i think the main thing is, we want to concentrate on collecting and all of that. that’s not to take away anything from what you discovered, because i think what you found is like one of the biggest stories i’ve ever heard of (with respect to smashing pumpkins vinyl). why is it there? who actually did this? what does it mean?

    but we have it on good word that the band is upset about this, so we think it best to not draw attention to it. that being said, if anyone has read this thread, they know the deal. we are not hiding anything, and i will be putting the matrix codes up as released into spfreaks. the information will be here, because that’s what we do. and you, specifically, are a big reason why we are able to release this kind of information to the public.

  • #43924

    i’m not saying we should start bitching and moaning or anything. but i don’t like the sound of this \"positive sp\" thing. it’s too restrictive. where did that all of a sudden come from? i know the forum has to stay clean. no trolling. that’s clear. but this \"positive\" thing is new to me. and i don’t like it very much. what is this? the new crestfallen.com?

    note that this is just a bit of a question/remark on the side.
    this isn’t about these matrix code messages and whether to make a lot of noise about them. i can understand why one would choose not to. if you look at it as rude graffiti, it makes sense. by putting it on twitter, you’re helping the vandal, not the victim.

  • #43925

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Second that, manillascissor. I gave it a thought also, because of course it is somewhat big news. It might lead to someone being fired at the vinyl plant, when Billy, the band or their management/staff really jump on it. It’s a really dirty spot on a world famous release, and it’s not a very funny message also. When the \"joker\" had put a hidden message like \"this is the best album ever bla bla bla\" then it would have been kinda cool, and it would have brought a big smile to everybody’s face.

    When we jump on the bandwagon right now, and bring the news frontpage, it is not for the benefit of SPfreaks.com in the long term. At this moment we will then be the messenger, and who got always shot again? Think about that…

    So I’m happy a Twitter moderator with a good feeling for short and long term interests for us SPfreaks and the SP community as a whole, deleted the Twitter message at this moment. Let Billy bring it out himself, and tell us what his actions are going to be. If he wants to bring it out, that is. He knows about it, and he was not amused, and I can understand that very well. Nuff said for the moment, I guess. It remains a cool find anyway, thanks to CAIC! 8)

  • #43926

    Let Billy bring it out himself, and tell us what his actions are going to be. If he wants to bring it out, that is.[/quote:29cbpam0]
    he won’t.
    and he doesn’t have to inform anyone. it’s none of our business.
    i do wonder about this, but i don’t think it’d be right.

  • #43927

    Sven
    Spectator

    i agree with geo and arthur that we should not "advertise" this on twitter. i have pretty much removed myself from twitter. i don’t understand it and don’t have time to put towards it.

    however, i do still have to uphold what i am responsible for, and that is uploading these two vinyl releases to the MyColletion portion of SPfreaks.

    i will obviously not be putting the vulgarity into the description, but the matrix codes are what they are, and will be represented here as such.

    big ups to bram for noticing these kinds of things. he sent me the codes awhile back and i was like, hmm, yeah, odd codes…..[/quote:15p9q3k1]

    crestfallen won’t post about this, but will check with BC.
    A&R – the master cutter / pressing plant refrains from comments.

    i think it’s BS to remain ‘positive’ per se. this is not ‘negative’ and even if the marks / remarks were really way more offending we SHOULD mention this as we mention all and everything just as plain factual issues.

    NME.com and Pitchfork are on the matter as we speak and checking with management and mastering / pressing plant.

    this is not a matter of immaturity, this a matter of a very high profile release with these kinds of profanities and that is a matter you can and should discuss in the music world and especially in the collector’s world.

  • #43928

    Sven
    Spectator

    Thanks for the support freaks! We have big things for spfreaks around the corner. With that being said we will be a positive sp site :)[/quote:30ffjte4]

    of course, but there’s NOTHING negative about decoding these messages in the matrix codes.
    i mean: we do post song titles like Fuck You (An Ode to No One)… come on…!

    plus:
    why remain positive? JC was a junky in a major part of the TSP years. D’Arcy had her share too.
    why not mention this in the history parts? it’s an integral part of the band’s history for example.

    shit happens, sometimes good, sometimes bad, but the music remains.

  • #43929

    Sven
    Spectator

    i think spfreaks should be mainly about collecting and all related freaky things, and not so much about being positive. there are enough websites around already that have made that their main selling point.

    i consider this matrix code message as a funny little fact. i don’t see what’s so wrong or negative about it. it’s there. well, ok, the message itself is negative, but reporting about it doesn’t have to be.
    (i can imagine it was put there by someone who doesn’t like the smashing pumpkins. that could explain it. like a sort of sneaky graffiti. from that point of view, it is negative. and it’s immature, no matter what the reason behind it is.)

    discovering a secret message in a matrix code is big spfreaks news to me. and in my opinion, more important than being a "positive sp site", whatever that is supposed to mean.
    and i don’t even think reporting about this would make spfreaks.com a negative sp site. i don’t see how it would make a difference, really.

    i’m not saying it should be on twitter necessarily. i don’t really care about that. but i do find it a bit weird that it was suddenly removed.
    i find these hidden messages quite weird, and all i want is to find out a bit more about it. where did it come from, mainly.

    that’s just my thoughts on this. it’s not my website, it’s not my twitter account. so carry on.[/quote:imhfbx85]

    totally agreed Bram.
    don’t censor a post or whatever just to remain ‘positive’…
    the business of a collector’s site is not the be ‘positive’ per se, but to report factual matters we’ve found out (first).

  • #43930

    Sven
    Spectator

    i’m not saying we should start bitching and moaning or anything. but i don’t like the sound of this "positive sp" thing. it’s too restrictive. where did that all of a sudden come from? i know the forum has to stay clean. no trolling. that’s clear. but this "positive" thing is new to me. and i don’t like it very much. what is this? the new crestfallen.com?

    note that this is just a bit of a question/remark on the side.
    this isn’t about these matrix code messages and whether to make a lot of noise about them. i can understand why one would choose not to. if you look at it as rude graffiti, it makes sense. by putting it on twitter, you’re helping the vandal, not the victim.[/quote:29bq0sw7]

    agreed Bram; I don’t like it one bit either…

  • #43931

    marigold
    Spectator

    I’d be interested to know if these sorts of codes appear on any other vinyls, or was this just someone’s joke (anti-SP) to put it on those particular ones? Maybe someone is putting these messages on all different kinds of releases?

  • #43932

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    i don’t know what you want us (SPfreaks) to do? we have this forum, we’ve discussed the entry, and i’ve stated it will be entered into the database. should we dwell on it? what’s left to say? the rest, right now, is pure speculation, we have to wait for the facts to come out…

  • #43933

    Sven
    Spectator

    Second that, manillascissor. I gave it a thought also, because of course it is somewhat big news. It might lead to someone being fired at the vinyl plant, when Billy, the band or their management/staff really jump on it. It’s a really dirty spot on a world famous release, and it’s not a very funny message also. When the "joker" had put a hidden message like "this is the best album ever bla bla bla" then it would have been kinda cool, and it would have brought a big smile to everybody’s face.

    When we jump on the bandwagon right now, and bring the news frontpage, it is not for the benefit of SPfreaks.com in the long term. At this moment we will then be the messenger, and who got always shot again? Think about that…

    So I’m happy a Twitter moderator with a good feeling for short and long term interests for us SPfreaks and the SP community as a whole, deleted the Twitter message at this moment. Let Billy bring it out himself, and tell us what his actions are going to be. If he wants to bring it out, that is. He knows about it, and he was not amused, and I can understand that very well. Nuff said for the moment, I guess. It remains a cool find anyway, thanks to CAIC! 8)[/quote:2b9124d3]

    Wrong reasoning altogether as per journalism or publishing details.
    It’s NOT a bad or negative thing per se.
    I’ve got a very strange and wrong feeling about the dealing(s) with this post and everything surrounding it and the arguments posted in favor of the censoring.
    I hope someone in the media picks it up as apparently SPFreaks is too afraid to do it.
    But exactly SPFreaks SHOULD be the party to do it and mention this.
    If not us, then who?

  • #43934

    Sven
    Spectator

    Let Billy bring it out himself, and tell us what his actions are going to be. If he wants to bring it out, that is.[/quote:131k1ipu]
    he won’t.
    and he doesn’t have to inform anyone. it’s none of our business.
    i do wonder about this, but i don’t think it’d be right.[/quote:131k1ipu]

    he won’t unless he’s notified and it gets some attention online or in the press.

    this is a somewhat big deal for such a massive release to be ‘fucked’ with in this way.

    there might be a band-answer as Crestfallen will check with BC.

  • #43935

    Sven
    Spectator

    i don’t know what you want us (SPfreaks) to do? we have this forum, we’ve discussed the entry, and i’ve stated it will be entered into the database. should we dwell on it? what’s left to say? the rest, right now, is pure speculation, we have to wait for the facts to come out…[/quote:1u37fs3k]

    that’s why you need to get this out in the open.
    either per Twitter or me mailing the guys at the pressing / mastering plant and Monte and the management.
    and the media.

    it’s not about dwelling on a topic.
    it’s about trying to find out what happened, when, where and why or how?!

    the facts won’t come out of thin air if there’s no mention of this to the band or anything.
    now, it’s about getting the history straight and put together.
    the factual matter is correct; these are the matrix codes in our copies. these are the messages.
    next stage: please explain…

  • #43936

    Sven
    Spectator

    I’d be interested to know if these sorts of codes appear on any other vinyls, or was this just someone’s joke (anti-SP) to put it on those particular ones? Maybe someone is putting these messages on all different kinds of releases?[/quote:2v9zndwn]

    matrix / run off groove messages are to be found on a massive amount of vinyls.
    it’s not something radically new or special, but to find these kind of remarks on TSP vinyl for SD is something that doesn’t seem to compute or make any sense.
    that’s why Bram and I would love to know how and why this got to be.

  • #43937

    i didn’t think it was that big of a deal, and i’m surprised NME and Pitchfork are on this. do they even care?

    i can understand the band will try and find who’s responsible for this, but this is, in my opinion, something that is best taken care of in private.

  • #43938

    A&R – the master cutter / pressing plant refrains from comments.[/quote:1trfl0lu]
    who checked this? that’s a great move. thanks for checking with them, even though nothing came out of it.

  • #43939

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    i don’t know what you want us (SPfreaks) to do? we have this forum, we’ve discussed the entry, and i’ve stated it will be entered into the database. should we dwell on it? what’s left to say? the rest, right now, is pure speculation, we have to wait for the facts to come out…[/quote:34w6p9hb]

    that’s why you need to get this out in the open.
    either per Twitter or me mailing the guys at the pressing / mastering plant and Monte and the management.
    and the media.

    it’s not about dwelling on a topic.
    it’s about trying to find out what happened, when, where and why or how?!

    the facts won’t come out of thin air if there’s no mention of this to the band or anything.
    now, it’s about getting the history straight and put together.
    the factual matter is correct; these are the matrix codes in our copies. these are the messages.
    next stage: please explain…[/quote:34w6p9hb]

    it is out in the open. monte had notified the band before you had emailed them. that’s how we know billy is offended and more than likely hurt by this. this is his (imo) iconic album as a band, and it’s pissed on by some fuck either at the pressing plant or by whoever was in charge of the reissues to begin with. or, this could be some sort of a joke and billy is in on it. point being, our frontpage article would say:

    Hey look at the matrix codes!

    FUCK YOU
    SUCK MY DICK
    LICK MY PUSSY
    WE LOVE YOU

    do we really want that on our FRONTPAGE? no. do we want it in the collection. ABSOLUTELY.

    also, i am not friends with billy, spfreaks is not friends with billy, but i like to think of it as respecting a friends wishes. maybe that’s just me.

  • #43940

    marigold
    Spectator

    I’d be interested to know if these sorts of codes appear on any other vinyls, or was this just someone’s joke (anti-SP) to put it on those particular ones? Maybe someone is putting these messages on all different kinds of releases?[/quote:2lkw89re]

    matrix / run off groove messages are to be found on a massive amount of vinyls.
    it’s not something radically new or special, but to find these kind of remarks on TSP vinyl for SD is something that doesn’t seem to compute or make any sense.
    that’s why Bram and I would love to know how and why this got to be.[/quote:2lkw89re]

    Do you have any examples of messages left on other vinyls? Are they as immature as this?

  • #43941

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=2764

    here is an example. it’s not coded. it’s just fun

  • #43942

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    A&R Dallas also pressed these:

    http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=3233
    http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=3236

    but the matrix codes look like matrix codes. nothing funky there…

  • #43943

    marigold
    Spectator

    http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=2764

    here is an example. it’s not coded. it’s just fun[/quote:2ll0grjs]

    weird…

  • #43944

    Do you have any examples of messages left on other vinyls? Are they as immature as this?[/quote:3knbar4g]
    check out this webpage: http://www.publiccollectors.org/MatrixMessages.htm

  • #43945

    haha, this one’s funny:

    Joy Division – “Still”
    Side A: the chicken won’t stop
    Side B: (chicken feet marks)
    Side C: (chicken feet marks)
    Side D: the chicken stops here[/quote:39m5f4h3]

  • #43946

    Sven
    Spectator

    i didn’t think it was that big of a deal, and i’m surprised NME and Pitchfork are on this. do they even care?

    i can understand the band will try and find who’s responsible for this, but this is, in my opinion, something that is best taken care of in private.[/quote:aa5qr3hw]

    well, i’m not saying there going to go live with this, but they said to me they were checking it out.
    it’s not a big deal, but on a slow news day, it can be a nice little ‘filler’ article…

    imagine the ‘finger’ M.I.A. gave the audience at the Superbowl halftime performance or ‘nipplegate’ ft. Miss Jackson. this is not something some people tend to take lightly…

    also, as the editor in chief of NME told me: it’s no longer a private matter once you have the records in your hands and those are out there… so…

  • #43947

    Sven
    Spectator

    A&R – the master cutter / pressing plant refrains from comments.[/quote:1jf9wrec]
    who checked this? that’s a great move. thanks for checking with them, even though nothing came out of it.[/quote:1jf9wrec]

    I did.

    They might come back tonight with a statement a new email just send said.
    They’re looking into matters, but it’s kinda tricky I believe for them to address this now to me as I think they need to clear things up for themselves and with their parties; i.e. the band, label, management et al. before they even say something on any kind of record to people like me.

  • #43948

    also, as the editor in chief of NME told me: it’s no longer a private matter once you have the records in your hands and those are out there… so…[/quote:h9jm0ffc]
    what i meant is that if someone gets fired over this, for example, then that’s not really any of our business. and however they want to deal with this (leave it be, or try to find who’s responsible, or moving to another company to press the next sp vinyl releases, … i don’t know, whatever), they can do that in private.
    and even though i do wonder what’s behind this, and also what might come of this, i still think handling this situation in private is the best way to deal with it.
    the complete opposite way could be tweeting "hey, we got that cunt at the pressing plant, who put dirty words on siamese dream, fired. victory! LOOOOOOOL!".

  • #43949

    Sven
    Spectator

    i don’t know what you want us (SPfreaks) to do? we have this forum, we’ve discussed the entry, and i’ve stated it will be entered into the database. should we dwell on it? what’s left to say? the rest, right now, is pure speculation, we have to wait for the facts to come out…[/quote:21mbqojn]

    that’s why you need to get this out in the open.
    either per Twitter or me mailing the guys at the pressing / mastering plant and Monte and the management.
    and the media.

    it’s not about dwelling on a topic.
    it’s about trying to find out what happened, when, where and why or how?!

    the facts won’t come out of thin air if there’s no mention of this to the band or anything.
    now, it’s about getting the history straight and put together.
    the factual matter is correct; these are the matrix codes in our copies. these are the messages.
    next stage: please explain…[/quote:21mbqojn]

    it is out in the open. monte had notified the band before you had emailed them. that’s how we know billy is offended and more than likely hurt by this. this is his (imo) iconic album as a band, and it’s pissed on by some fuck either at the pressing plant or by whoever was in charge of the reissues to begin with. or, this could be some sort of a joke and billy is in on it. point being, our frontpage article would say:

    Hey look at the matrix codes!

    FUCK YOU
    SUCK MY DICK
    LICK MY PUSSY
    WE LOVE YOU

    do we really want that on our FRONTPAGE? no. do we want it in the collection. ABSOLUTELY.

    also, i am not friends with billy, spfreaks is not friends with billy, but i like to think of it as respecting a friends wishes. maybe that’s just me.[/quote:21mbqojn]

    respect is a very very big thing in my book.
    I’ve always respected BCs wishes, also when it came down to not sharing some recordings for example or not talking about stuff we discussed backstage at meetings. I’ve always honoured those wishes, of course.

    I’m not saying we should address this on the front page of our site per se.

    I was saying we also should not per se be POSITIVE only.
    When shit hits the fan so to speak, we above all, as collectors who notice things, are the ones to speak up.

    The way in which we speak up is a matter of respect.
    Therefore I’m NOT advocating a front page article on this matter.
    I just can not see why a post on our Twitter page would be NEGATIVE or wrong.

    Even if BC himself is hurt by this piss take by some schmuck at the pressing plant, that’s the same way I feel taken aback by these messages, even as I’m not totally offended by the remarks themselves, I feel these have ‘soiled’ the landmark record SD is per se. That’s why I think it is a grave matter and unlike Arthur, I think someone SHOULD get a good talking to or get fired over these kind of ‘pranks’ on a piece of art some people have given months and months, blood, sweat and lots of tears over to produce.

    With respect to the notion of respect for BC and his feelings: I think there’s a very delicate balance there between the world knowing TSP has these remarks in their run off grooves / matrix codes and/or keeping it private. I am not out on this matter. As a journalist I think differently and like to know how, why, where, when and by whom. That’s why I went out to investigate and checked with the pressing plant / mastering plant et al. And with Monte. He told me he’d check with BC to see if he’d be inclined to give a public statement or comment or a private one and he’d let me know. I will for now not go public with this as I feel it is too embarrassing for the band or BC as we don’t have a public statement from them or the record label. As we speak, I just per chance met the main lady at EMI The Netherlands and she would also try to get some information on this matter for me and asked me not to go public with this until she had gathered more information and details. So I will refrain from anything publically. Still: I think it’s a matter of professional journalism to look into things, get the relevant facts checked, get the comments from the parties involved and then see if what you’ve got it worth publishing, at large or otherwise. In this case I think the research with the label, pressing or mastering plant, per Monto towards the band / BC and so on is the best of courses to follow. Then we can see what comes out of that.

  • #43950

    Sven
    Spectator

    haha, this one’s funny:

    Joy Division – “Still”
    Side A: the chicken won’t stop
    Side B: (chicken feet marks)
    Side C: (chicken feet marks)
    Side D: the chicken stops here[/quote:1wp41zb6][/quote:1wp41zb6]

    that’s an infamous case indeed and a good one! :)

  • #43951

    marigold
    Spectator

    Do you have any examples of messages left on other vinyls? Are they as immature as this?[/quote:31gdg4gl]
    check out this webpage: http://www.publiccollectors.org/MatrixMessages.htm[/quote:31gdg4gl]

    I see, only a few are anywhere near the stupidity of the one on this SD vinyl though, but then again, if they had been sent any that were similar would they have put them in that list?

  • #43952

    Sven
    Spectator

    also, as the editor in chief of NME told me: it’s no longer a private matter once you have the records in your hands and those are out there… so…[/quote:kqzb9zua]
    what i meant is that if someone gets fired over this, for example, then that’s not really any of our business. and however they want to deal with this (leave it be, or try to find who’s responsible, or moving to another company to press the next sp vinyl releases, … i don’t know, whatever), they can do that in private.
    and even though i do wonder what’s behind this, and also what might come of this, i still think handling this situation in private is the best way to deal with it.
    the complete opposite way could be tweeting "hey, we got that cunt at the pressing plant, who put dirty words on siamese dream, fired. victory! LOOOOOOOL!".[/quote:kqzb9zua]

    exactly… we mentioned it. Monte knows, BC knows. BC’s offended and hurt.
    these dudes have got a major issue on their hands to deal with.
    this is not taken lightly so i’ve heard.
    that’s of course all private matter to be dealt with between label, band, management and pressing or mastering plants.
    but, when shit hits the fan and is out there, just don’t be too surprised if someone picks up on this and goes public with the matrix code remarks.
    that might be totally fucked for BC and the band and all, but that’s how it works when you put things out to the public.

    now: is it up to us to go major public with these facts?
    the journalist in me says: yes, if and when we’ve got the facts straight and all the info we need.
    with respect to BC i would also say, yes, but not in the way you described your tweet-example, but just like we fact checked the grey Tristessa story.
    does that mean we need to involve major music magazines? well, yes, as per they know their way to check rather quicker than we might be able to do these facts.
    will they go live with these matters? maybe. is that a bad thing? no, if they manage to get an address and good quote from either BC or the management or whatever to set things in perspective.

    on a personal note: should somebody get fired over this?
    well: as we now know from Monte, BC’s aware of this and hurt.
    matters are being dealt with as we speak.
    that’s all in private of course and a matter of lawyers and so on.

    referring back to my earlier post:
    it’s a work of art per se that’s been soiled by someone.
    i think there should be some decent repercussions for this.

  • #43953

    I see, only a few are anywhere near the stupidity of the one on this SD vinyl though, but then again, if they had been sent any that were similar would they have put them in that list?[/quote:22sjl6xy]
    i think the difference is that most of the messages on that webpage were put there by the band, and not by someone else who was trying to be funny.

  • #43954

    Sven
    Spectator

    I see, only a few are anywhere near the stupidity of the one on this SD vinyl though, but then again, if they had been sent any that were similar would they have put them in that list?[/quote:3ayvab78]
    i think the difference is that most of the messages on that webpage were put there by the band, and not by someone else who was trying to be funny.[/quote:3ayvab78]

    A dear friend of mine is an avid collector of The Smiths.
    The band is infamous for the messages in the run off grooves.
    Those were VERY intentional.

    I tend to remember there’s also a Nirvana 7" with a cool message in the run off groove.

    All of those were done with intent.

    That’s why this is so kinda mind-boggling as I can’t fathom TSP doing this or OK-ing this.

    Now we at least know BC is hurt by these remarks and not happy in any way with these run off groove messages.

    Just imagine what this means to the guy:
    Thousands of people buy the superb sounding new 2LP of SD and get this shit in the matrix?!

  • #43955

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Quickly catching up, I was in a loooong meeting…

    On a few things I read here and there: the positive thing that we always wanted to create here on SPfreaks, is that we want to help the SPfreaks members & collectors, and, in a way, the band at the same time. If we have a positive relationship between all these people, and maintain it, it will be beneficial for all of us. The more information we get directly from the band and its staff, the better! And I myself am VERY strict with rules of behaviour, even on the (anonymous) internet. We discussed this a few times before. And my opinion has not changed.

    However, hot news is hot news, either good or bad. If someone doesn’t like the message, I wouldn’t give a fuck. Not even when Billy doesn’t like it. BUT! There is always the timing, and the means, aspect to a news item. In this case, when my tweet got deleted, I didn’t realize at the moment of posting it, that just screaming something like this matrix thing out there in public, is considered as \"look at ME and our website! And look at the face of that surprised Billy too, who just got backstabbed at the same time!\".

    I hope you guys know what I mean. It’s not appropriate. Wrong timing, wrong means. What Sven did, trying to reach (friends of) Billy asap, and do further research, and then post the full story frontpage somewhere, that is more appropriate. Billy can’t stop the news, even if he wanted to. But what we can try to do as a community is \"behave, with respect\", at all times. And afterwards, I can understand that a person reading news about a hot and personal issue (Siamese Dream IS a very personal record to Billy!), while it is already \"out there for everybody\", feels like a double dagger in the back.

    Thus, no issues with my tweet being deleted, because it contributes to a more positive atmosphere within existing relationships, and there is in no way censorship going on.

  • #43956

    Sven
    Spectator

    Quickly catching up, I was in a loooong meeting…

    On a few things I read here and there: the positive thing that we always wanted to create here on SPfreaks, is that we want to help the SPfreaks members & collectors, and, in a way, the band at the same time. If we have a positive relationship between all these people, and maintain it, it will be beneficial for all of us. The more information we get directly from the band and its staff, the better! And I myself am VERY strict with rules of behaviour, even on the (anonymous) internet. We discussed this a few times before. And my opinion has not changed.

    However, hot news is hot news, either good or bad. If someone doesn’t like the message, I wouldn’t give a fuck. Not even when Billy doesn’t like it. BUT! There is always the timing, and the means, aspect to a news item. In this case, when my tweet got deleted, I didn’t realize at the moment of posting it, that just screaming something like this matrix thing out there in public, is considered as "look at ME and our website! And look at the face of that surprised Billy too, who just got backstabbed at the same time!".

    I hope you guys know what I mean. It’s not appropriate. Wrong timing, wrong means. What Sven did, trying to reach (friends of) Billy asap, and do further research, and then post the full story frontpage somewhere, that is more appropriate. Billy can’t stop the news, even if he wanted to. But what we can try to do as a community is "behave, with respect", at all times. And afterwards, I can understand that a person reading news about a hot and personal issue (Siamese Dream IS a very personal record to Billy!), while it is already "out there for everybody", feels like a double dagger in the back.

    Thus, no issues with my tweet being deleted, because it contributes to a more positive atmosphere within existing relationships, and there is in no way censorship going on.[/quote:3j5tu5qo]

    Amen to that! :)

  • #43957

    Sven
    Spectator

    also:
    please do not post things that aren’t true or haven’t happened!
    i’ve just had contact with someone and things mentioned here just are not at all or in any way real nor true.
    just don’t frustrate genuine research with posts that are made up, please!

  • #43958

    Arthur
    Spectator

    huh? :roll:

    This brings a new dimension to this topic… Will the un-true poster please step forward? Or was it me?

  • #43959

    Sven
    Spectator

    Sorry, we as a site won’t highlight this. It just too immature. The twitter is just highlighting the positive of sp and collecting through spfreaks.[/quote:f2refvsz]

    I REALLY beg to differ and do consider this stance to be an immature stance.

    If this is per se the ideology of SPFreaks I per now and per se will refrain from being a part of this community as and per how this narrow minded policiy is being conducted.

    I am very sorry to all of you and the TSP collecting world but I just can not and will not live with this kind of censorship, until someone tells me different.

    Sorry, some songs are shite and we can say so. We’re NOT a clapping/applause machine.
    If SPFreaks is to be about that, then without me.

    Sorry. I am disgusted, utterly, by GEOFOLKERS post. Utterly DIGUSTED!!!!

  • #43960

    mirrorboxer
    Spectator

    It looks like I’m late to the party again!

    I’m usually a sucker for matrix codes and run out messages but would not have thought twice about those numbers. Great job Bram :!: I buy and collect a lot of Third Man Records releases which almost always have a message etched into their records. So I’m ‘trained’ to look for them on each record that I buy. I enjoy most of them even if I don’t get the inside joke that they usually are. These on the other hand are, well…..you know.

    I’ll be following this topic, but I likely won’t have much to contribute. I hope that will be helpful in keeping this clean and factual.

  • #43961

    If this is per se the ideology of SPFreaks I per now and per se will refrain from being a part of this community as and per how this narrow minded policiy is being conducted.[/quote:2x9lzwdf]
    i don’t think this is the new spfreaks.com ideology. calm down, sven. i’m sure we can work this out.
    i must admit, i was also confused when i read that. see some of my previous posts.

  • #43962

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    i don’t understand this. on july 4, 2007, i personally wrote the welcome to the forum message that states:

    \"Please post about any and every topic you deem necessary. We encourage all discussion(s). However, please refrain from unwarranted personal attacks or constant negativity. If this is why you are here, please leave. We are searching for a positive community at SPfreaks. Please join our community and help us create the best band forum on the net!\"

    what in the fuck has changed since then? we have been about a positive atmosphere here the ENTIRE time, we’ve had absolutely no problems maintaining it, and will continue to do so, whether or not sven feels like we are censoring things. there are plenty of threads about songs we hate, what in the fuck is going on?

  • #43963

    you could read geofolkers’ post as if only positive things were allowed from now on.
    there’s a big difference between being negative all the time and allowing \"negative\" opinions.

  • #43964

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    i also think there is a big difference between our site and twitter. they serve very VERY different purposes.

    say whatever you want here. on twitter, we shall use discretion. it’s kind of, i don’t know, professional?

  • #43965

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    one last thing, geo does not run this site. one man does. his name is arthur. anything moving forward has funneled through the van peltian ears or eyes, and i believe has it’s own matrix coded stamp of approval.

  • #43966

    Sven
    Spectator

    If this is per se the ideology of SPFreaks I per now and per se will refrain from being a part of this community as and per how this narrow minded policiy is being conducted.[/quote:lyhaci0g]
    i don’t think this is the new spfreaks.com ideology. calm down, sven. i’m sure we can work this out.
    i must admit, i was also confused when i read that. see some of my previous posts.[/quote:lyhaci0g]

    i am sure we will.

  • #43967

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    welcome back! please please carry on discussing this topic. i made a decision to lock this temporarily and i stand by that decision. no censorship was conducted, and i will not falter on that note either.

    either way, i have nothing more to say on this topic, as it is all speculation, in my opinion. but please continue if you have gathered any facts that you would like to share with the group.

  • #43968

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Hehe, it turned out to be a very interesting topic, where some people, me included, got carried away a little. However, I’m glad it was reopened (I kindly suggested that), after this cool down period to reflect on the matters. So, please guys, hold your breaths a little when starting to post here again! :lol:

    Furthermore, just my personal analysis, we have people gathered here with a lot of passion for the band, and with a lot of eye for details, and there it can go wrong when people start interpreting things that might feel as a \"truth\" somewhere. And we all make mistakes then… Lesson learned, for all of us, I hope. This forum WILL stay open for any opinion, for any person that can contribute to any topic in a positive way. Even when the message is sometimes not positive. And the message \"this vinyl is fucked up\" is indeed not positive. But for who?

    OK, that’s how I returned back on topic. What we know so far is that there are rather stupid \"not-so-hidden\" messages on a high profile vinyl. Billy probably knows about it already, but said nothing in public so far. What’s next?

  • #43969

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Sorry, we as a site won’t highlight this. It just too immature. The twitter is just highlighting the positive of sp and collecting through spfreaks.[/quote:2kgfhbha]
    OK, this is something I want to explain here also (sorry, off topic again!).

    When I set up the SPfreaks Twitter account a long time ago, this is EXACTLY what I wanted with it. So I understood this message right away, and I support it too. Let me be very clear about that. We have this forum for member opinions, interviews and articles, and we have the homepage news section where we can post any research and other news items, as long as they come from reliable and trustworthy sources. Over the years we posted several examples of myth busting news items, where egos were made, and also broken sometimes. And we will continue to do so.

    So, please go check out what is going on on our Twitter account these days ( http://twitter.com/spfreaks ), which tripled the daily traffic to our website from 200 something to 600 something unique visitors, in just 5 days… And we started selling SPfreaks.com t-shirts again, to cover some costs of this thingy! And also, please bear in mind that I, and with me the mods of this website dedicated to the band Smashing Pumpkins, have several other things to take into consideration, next to handling the egos of our members and visitors, when it comes to this full blown but non-commercial hobby project. OK, nuff said. :P

  • #43970

    MonteLDS
    Spectator

    i don’t know what you want us (SPfreaks) to do? we have this forum, we’ve discussed the entry, and i’ve stated it will be entered into the database. should we dwell on it? what’s left to say? the rest, right now, is pure speculation, we have to wait for the facts to come out…[/quote:3q3g4tdi]

    that’s why you need to get this out in the open.
    either per Twitter or me mailing the guys at the pressing / mastering plant and Monte and the management.
    and the media.

    it’s not about dwelling on a topic.
    it’s about trying to find out what happened, when, where and why or how?!

    the facts won’t come out of thin air if there’s no mention of this to the band or anything.
    now, it’s about getting the history straight and put together.
    the factual matter is correct; these are the matrix codes in our copies. these are the messages.
    next stage: please explain…[/quote:3q3g4tdi]

    it is out in the open. monte had notified the band before you had emailed them. that’s how we know billy is offended and more than likely hurt by this. this is his (imo) iconic album as a band, and it’s pissed on by some fuck either at the pressing plant or by whoever was in charge of the reissues to begin with. or, this could be some sort of a joke and billy is in on it. point being, our frontpage article would say:

    [/quote:3q3g4tdi]

    just to set the record straight I never notified the band.

  • #43971

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    i must have been mistaken

  • #43972

    Sven
    Spectator

    I now know how this panned out as per some researching.

    No worries left nor right.

    Just keep things clean and simple and factual and all is well.

  • #43973

    Sven
    Spectator

    Plus: thanks to Derek.

    Plus 2: I’m sorry.

    It took a lot of effort to get things straight on this matter.
    And: a lot og energy and time too.

    I now know how this panned out and worked.

    I had to deal with loads of people and loads of issues and feelings.

    I’m sorry, ok.

    At least we now know the story.

  • #43974

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    it’s all good, we all have our moments! glad everyone is on the same page now. :)

  • #43975

    so what exactly is the story now?

  • #43976

    Arthur
    Spectator

    so what exactly is the story now?[/quote:1g9eqa89]
    James called D’Arcy, who called Jimmy, to make a nightly visit to the vinyl plant. The rest is history… No idea why people get so emotional about this.

  • #43977

    very factual, arthur. :lol:

  • #43978

    two opinions on who could be responsible for this from netphoria.org:

    i’ve worked with pressing plants before and it’s not about approving the matrix codes. there’s only a certain amount of information that must be etched onto the outgroove. the rest of that information is provided by the band or someone working for the band on a form that is filled out with individual boxes etc you know the type.

    so it’s not about approving the numbers so much as it is who decided that they be put there. it is least likely someone at the plant took it upon themselves to do this that would be too risky.

    the guys pressing really don’t care what they’re pressing on the grooves they just do what they’re told. coded language or not.[/quote:32d5bl3h]

    I can guarantee that Kerry was never anywhere near or had any involvement with the pressing plates.

    My guess is Billy pissed someone off big time. I have a feeling he drove who ever cut the lacquer nuts. Maybe he kept rejecting test pressings or something like that.

    The fact that it is only on SD and not on Gish makes me think it’s not Billy. If it was him it would have been some grand plan to do it on all the reissues before he got tired of it.

    Think of it like this. They master Gish, Billy makes them recut the lacquer twice for silly reasons. SD gets mastered Billy makes them recut SD, engineer get pissed hides a few extra numbers in the matrix.

    This happened when they were cutting the lacquer it’s the only thing that makes sense.[/quote:32d5bl3h]

  • #43979

    Sven
    Spectator

    it’s all good, we all have our moments! glad everyone is on the same page now. :)[/quote:1ey1qywo]

    Exactly and totally agreed.

  • #43980

    Sven
    Spectator

    so what exactly is the story now?[/quote:k1rb2ywk]
    James called D’Arcy, who called Jimmy, to make a nightly visit to the vinyl plant. The rest is history… No idea why people get so emotional about this.[/quote:k1rb2ywk]

    LOL :)

  • #43981

    Sven
    Spectator

    two opinions on who could be responsible for this from netphoria.org:

    i’ve worked with pressing plants before and it’s not about approving the matrix codes. there’s only a certain amount of information that must be etched onto the outgroove. the rest of that information is provided by the band or someone working for the band on a form that is filled out with individual boxes etc you know the type.

    so it’s not about approving the numbers so much as it is who decided that they be put there. it is least likely someone at the plant took it upon themselves to do this that would be too risky.

    the guys pressing really don’t care what they’re pressing on the grooves they just do what they’re told. coded language or not.[/quote:165kb5oh]

    I can guarantee that Kerry was never anywhere near or had any involvement with the pressing plates.

    My guess is Billy pissed someone off big time. I have a feeling he drove who ever cut the lacquer nuts. Maybe he kept rejecting test pressings or something like that.

    The fact that it is only on SD and not on Gish makes me think it’s not Billy. If it was him it would have been some grand plan to do it on all the reissues before he got tired of it.

    Think of it like this. They master Gish, Billy makes them recut the lacquer twice for silly reasons. SD gets mastered Billy makes them recut SD, engineer get pissed hides a few extra numbers in the matrix.

    This happened when they were cutting the lacquer it’s the only thing that makes sense.[/quote:165kb5oh][/quote:165kb5oh]

    I now know who etched it into the ‘dead wax’ for the matrix codes.
    It was all legit. That’s all I can say.

  • #43982

    \"it was all legit\"? what does that mean?
    that the person who had to etch it only did it because he was told to do so? that these numbers were written on the form under \"matrix code appendix (optional)\"?

  • #43983

    Arthur
    Spectator

    If it was all legit, then it can only mean 1 thing, to my opinion. It is a hidden message to us, the SPfreaks community. Think about it, we are the only place that really cares about matrix codes. So who is the sender, and what is he or she telling us?

  • #43984

    Sven
    Spectator

    "it was all legit"? what does that mean?
    that the person who had to etch it only did it because he was told to do so? that these numbers were written on the form under "matrix code appendix (optional)"?[/quote:lwv8m1nm]

    it means what i wrote.
    this is what i learned.
    and this is exactly what i was told: it was legit.
    i can’t tell you if someone was told to etch these matrix codes or did it with some form of consent, explicit or implicit.
    not because i was told not to say or something like that, but because i don’t bear any knowledge thereof.

    just like i suspected, this is a major label release on highest of profiles and the chance this was not noticed or anything is rather slim.

    at least now we know it was legit.
    if this was a per the info you posted from Netphoria, i’m not aware, but i guess there’s a chance it was not wholly explicit consent, but the person cutting these vinyls was allowed to put an appendix in the dead wax / matrix code.

  • #43985

    Sven
    Spectator

    If it was all legit, then it can only mean 1 thing, to my opinion. It is a hidden message to us, the SPfreaks community. Think about it, we are the only place that really cares about matrix codes. So who is the sender, and what is he or she telling us?[/quote:2spstk8k]

    :) could be… :)

  • #43986

    i don’t understand what you’re trying to say.

  • #43987

    those quotes from netphoria are just the opinions of two different people. i don’t think they know anything. those are just guesses.

  • #43988

    i don’t know what \"it was legit\" means. what exactly was legit? and to me, \"legit\" means real. obviously you’re using the word with a different meaning here. a meaning not known by me.

  • #43989

    Sven
    Spectator

    i don’t understand what you’re trying to say.[/quote:39zw02ub]

    OK I wil try again.
    From what I’ve learned:
    1- I know who cut the masters and therewith these matrix codes.
    2- This person is extremely polite and gave me the information I asked for without any trouble.
    3- He told me the whole of the release and mastering including the matrix codes as I asked about those specifically was "’legitimate".
    4- He told me he’d never jeopardize anything with such a big release on his hands and was OK-ed to "put his signature in the Dead Wax".
    5- There’s more, but I am not sure I am at liberty to talk about that in public, though nothing related to these matrix codes.

    That’s why I said: it’s legit or legitimate. There’s for me at least no reason to doubt this person.
    I can’t say if he was told to sign the matrix the way he did or that BC explicit or implicit knew of this ‘signature’ and the message(s) spelled out. I just do not know. I can try to check this though. And will.

  • #43990

    Sven
    Spectator

    those quotes from netphoria are just the opinions of two different people. i don’t think they know anything. those are just guesses.[/quote:140lx4dd]

    i gather these seem to be quite accurate as to the process of the mastering, cutting and matrix code etching.

  • #43991

    Sven
    Spectator

    by the way: the pressing plant has worked for more than a year with BC on these re-issues.

  • #43992

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Now im confused. He was ok-ed to put his signature in the dead wax? Who is \"he\"? The master-cutter i guess? And this polite person decides to add extra numbers with a very explicit meaning hidden inside as his signature, and this is not seen by him as jeopardizing the release? Then only someone on a high level, if not the highest level possible, has approved this joke. And im confused what message they wanted to arrive at the fans? Because, sorry master-cutter, im not going to take sucking lessons. The licking is negotiable, however. But come on!

  • #43993

    Sven
    Spectator

    Now im confused. He was ok-ed to put his signature in the dead wax? Who is "he"? The master-cutter i guess? And this polite person decides to add extra numbers with a very explicit meaning hidden inside as his signature, and this is not seen by him as jeopardizing the release? Then only someone on a high level, if not the highest level possible, has approved this joke. And im confused what message they wanted to arrive at the fans? Because, sorry master-cutter, im not going to take sucking lessons. The licking is negotiable, however. But come on![/quote:cm6kql2s]

    The "he" is the person that cut the master vinyl.
    He told me it was "legitimate" to put his signature in the ‘Dead Wax’.

    Even know more now. The plot thickens.

  • #43994

    Arthur
    Spectator

    I would’ve been more impressed with a message like \"thank you for taking the ride with the infinite express. departure time, always. arrival time, never.\" This is SO immature, US-style.

  • #43995

    Sven
    Spectator

    I would’ve been more impressed with a message like "thank you for taking the ride with the infinite express. departure time, always. arrival time, never." This is SO immature, US-style.[/quote:2yujjm50]

    That would’ve been a great one… :)

  • #43996

    i don’t understand what you’re trying to say.[/quote:1fnn93ce]

    OK I wil try again.
    From what I’ve learned:
    1- I know who cut the masters and therewith these matrix codes.
    2- This person is extremely polite and gave me the information I asked for without any trouble.
    3- He told me the whole of the release and mastering including the matrix codes as I asked about those specifically was "’legitimate".
    4- He told me he’d never jeopardize anything with such a big release on his hands and was OK-ed to "put his signature in the Dead Wax".
    5- There’s more, but I am not sure I am at liberty to talk about that in public, though nothing related to these matrix codes.

    That’s why I said: it’s legit or legitimate. There’s for me at least no reason to doubt this person.
    I can’t say if he was told to sign the matrix the way he did or that BC explicit or implicit knew of this ‘signature’ and the message(s) spelled out. I just do not know. I can try to check this though. And will.[/quote:1fnn93ce]
    thank you for trying again.

    so what exactly are you saying here? that this person is legit, that you have no reason to doubt his version?
    or that these messages were legitimated, that this person was allowed to add them (by "someone")?
    by mentioning "put his signature in the dead wax", you imply these hidden messages are his. correct?

  • #43997

    – so is it true that billy was upset when he heard about these? or is that an unconfirmed rumour? if not, who checked where?

    – so this person was allowed to add his signature to the matrix code. it’s not clear who allowed him to do this.
    — did it go all the way up to billy to give the ok (possibly without knowing what the extra numbers stood for)?
    — or is it possible that someone above the master cutter gave the ok, but billy had no idea things were added?

  • #43998

    i’m impressed you got in touch with the guy who added these messages, sven. that is amazing.

  • #43999

    Arthur
    Spectator

    i’m impressed you got in touch with the guy who added these messages, sven. that is amazing.[/quote:1fv7hicr]
    Second that. That’s why I love the guy, he knows ways in this world I wouldn’t even know they existed.

    But I’m still curious who ok-ed that on a higher level. And was the full text known to this person that ok-ed it? I mean, when I read "FUCK YOU" and "WE LOVE YOU", it almost has the signature of Billy himself, since it are Smashing Pumpkins songs, and in this order it shows Billy’s twisted view on this world, as a person, and as an artist that was born from this person. I’m really cool with that.

    But the other 2 texts? Meh.

  • #44000

    But I’m still curious who ok-ed that on a higher level. And was the full text known to this person that ok-ed it?[/quote:abfxdq4c]
    that remains a mystery for now.

    i thought we’d never hear anything from this, but with sven’s digging, we might actually find out what exactly happened.

    what about bc’s reaction? has that been confirmed, or was that just a rumour?

  • #44001

    Sven
    Spectator

    i don’t understand what you’re trying to say.[/quote:1y30drhr]

    OK I wil try again.
    From what I’ve learned:
    1- I know who cut the masters and therewith these matrix codes.
    2- This person is extremely polite and gave me the information I asked for without any trouble.
    3- He told me the whole of the release and mastering including the matrix codes as I asked about those specifically was "’legitimate".
    4- He told me he’d never jeopardize anything with such a big release on his hands and was OK-ed to "put his signature in the Dead Wax".
    5- There’s more, but I am not sure I am at liberty to talk about that in public, though nothing related to these matrix codes.

    That’s why I said: it’s legit or legitimate. There’s for me at least no reason to doubt this person.
    I can’t say if he was told to sign the matrix the way he did or that BC explicit or implicit knew of this ‘signature’ and the message(s) spelled out. I just do not know. I can try to check this though. And will.[/quote:1y30drhr]
    thank you for trying again.

    so what exactly are you saying here? that this person is legit, that you have no reason to doubt his version?
    or that these messages were legitimated, that this person was allowed to add them (by "someone")?
    by mentioning "put his signature in the dead wax", you imply these hidden messages are his. correct?[/quote:1y30drhr]

    The person is legit and legitimate.
    There is no reason to doubt him.

    Your inferred reading of my words was correct.
    As per: when I wrote these as that was my knowledge per then.

    My answer now is: he was not ‘allowed’ to ‘put his signature in the dead wax’, he was told so.
    Suffice to say for what I know that it wasn’t his personal idea by any means.
    Also: he didn’t know of the messages decoded until I told him what these spelled out.

  • #44002

    My answer now is: he was not ‘allowed’ to ‘put his signature in the dead wax’, he was told so.
    Suffice to say for what I know that it wasn’t his personal idea by any means.
    Also: he didn’t know of the messages decoded until I told him what these spelled out.[/quote:2d8xa1ph]
    ooh. interesting.

    so that guy from netphoria is right: people at the pressing plant just do as they’re told. they etch into the master whatever people ask them.

    now the question remains: who asked for these coded messages to be added?
    did someone somewhere in the chain between band and cutter try to add it sneakily?
    was it requested properly, just like any band would request an extra message in the matrix code, by filling in the appropriate part on the appropriate form?

  • #44003

    Arthur
    Spectator

    what about bc’s reaction? has that been confirmed, or was that just a rumour?[/quote:6fahhm3t]
    For the moment I consider them to be "rumours" or "misinterpret emotional reactions to this news from and on this forum, where it all started", since I have not seen nor heard any clear messages from management, the band, or Billy Corgan himself, so far. All options are open, I guess. Maybe he knows, maybe he doesn’t know. Maybe he is shocked, and taking actions, maybe he has his wellknown smirky smile about this… :lol:

  • #44004

    Sven
    Spectator

    – so is it true that billy was upset when he heard about these? or is that an unconfirmed rumour? if not, who checked where?

    – so this person was allowed to add his signature to the matrix code. it’s not clear who allowed him to do this.
    — did it go all the way up to billy to give the ok (possibly without knowing what the extra numbers stood for)?
    — or is it possible that someone above the master cutter gave the ok, but billy had no idea things were added?[/quote:2ywzgipo]

    1 -> can not be. the label or BC told the guy cutting the master to do so. It was something that came down as per ‘order’ from the label and as such I think from BC. I am not sure though. Of course it could have been a fluke joke by the label, pranking BC, but with a high profile release like this it feels highly unlikely. Also: I’ve had some answers from EMI now and this does not seem to point in that direction. It does point in one direction: the digit code for the dead wax signature was ‘ordered’ as per se by BC.

    2 -> yes. and: of course. as per the label and as such, I imagine, the artist, i.e.: BC.

    3 -> I don’t think so. it was specifically ordered as per such and there’s been multiple moments of contact between the master cutter and BC too in a period over 18+ months working on these re-issues.

  • #44005

    Sven
    Spectator

    i’m impressed you got in touch with the guy who added these messages, sven. that is amazing.[/quote:1z84bij4]

    thank you, much appreciated.

  • #44006

    kewl.

    i’m surprised about that rumour though. so that came out of nowhere?
    wasn’t that rumour – that bc was upset about this – one of the main reasons to delete the tweet? and the start of the whole drama wave?
    well, well…

  • #44007

    Sven
    Spectator

    i’m impressed you got in touch with the guy who added these messages, sven. that is amazing.[/quote:2kk7hhbt]
    Second that. That’s why I love the guy, he knows ways in this world I wouldn’t even know they existed.

    But I’m still curious who ok-ed that on a higher level. And was the full text known to this person that ok-ed it? I mean, when I read "FUCK YOU" and "WE LOVE YOU", it almost has the signature of Billy himself, since it are Smashing Pumpkins songs, and in this order it shows Billy’s twisted view on this world, as a person, and as an artist that was born from this person. I’m really cool with that.

    But the other 2 texts? Meh.[/quote:2kk7hhbt]

    the master cutter didn’t know the messages until I told him what these spelled out.

  • #44008

    like i said earlier, the \"we love you\" is very out of place next to the other messages. but it’s a very billy corgan thing to say.

  • #44009

    can someone fish for a reaction from billy?

    now that we have good reasons to believe he is behind this himself, i think it’s safe to even do it via twitter. it doesn’t have to be with the spfreaks twitter, but i personally don’t see why not. one can simply ask about the \"secret message\". no need to spell them out. if billy is really behind it, he’ll know what is meant.

  • #44010

    Sven
    Spectator

    But I’m still curious who ok-ed that on a higher level. And was the full text known to this person that ok-ed it?[/quote:3gzmiadw]
    that remains a mystery for now.

    i thought we’d never hear anything from this, but with sven’s digging, we might actually find out what exactly happened.

    what about bc’s reaction? has that been confirmed, or was that just a rumour?[/quote:3gzmiadw]

    i do not know.
    it was ‘an order’ from the label, at least, that’s what i know.

    i’ve heard that bc checked in with the master cutter / pressing plant on several occasions so I imagine this must have been to his knowledge and / or as per his very own idea.

    i can’t think that bc’s reaction is anything but a rumour.

  • #44011

    Sven
    Spectator

    My answer now is: he was not ‘allowed’ to ‘put his signature in the dead wax’, he was told so.
    Suffice to say for what I know that it wasn’t his personal idea by any means.
    Also: he didn’t know of the messages decoded until I told him what these spelled out.[/quote:19bvpbwn]
    ooh. interesting.

    so that guy from netphoria is right: people at the pressing plant just do as they’re told. they etch into the master whatever people ask them.

    now the question remains: who asked for these coded messages to be added?
    did someone somewhere in the chain between band and cutter try to add it sneakily?
    was it requested properly, just like any band would request an extra message in the matrix code, by filling in the appropriate part on the appropriate form?[/quote:19bvpbwn]

    If this was done as per a form or anything I do not know.
    He just did what he was told, indeed.

  • #44012

    Sven
    Spectator

    can someone fish for a reaction from billy?

    now that we have good reasons to believe he is behind this himself, i think it’s safe to even do it via twitter. it doesn’t have to be with the spfreaks twitter, but i personally don’t see why not. one can simply ask about the "secret message". no need to spell them out. if billy is really behind it, he’ll know what is meant.[/quote:39cqh2sm]

    tried to, got very far, but he will refrain from commenting, at least: that’s what i’ve heard / been told.

  • #44013

    so we’ll never know for sure.

  • #44014

    Arthur
    Spectator

    If this was done as per a form or anything I do not know. He just did what he was told, indeed.[/quote:pklgi7ml]
    It would be interesting to see the latest version of that form… Then we would know if it was added "sneakily", or with the knowledge of everybody involved in approving the (pressing of the) release. And it is also quite funny to read that the master-cutter did NOT know the meaning of the numbers when he was asked (or ordered by the form) to etch them. :lol:

  • #44015

    that’s the thing with these coded messages though: anyone could have added them. unless someone would have asked why the matrix code was suddenly a bit longer, nobody would have noticed.

    on the other hand, i would expect everyone involved to have noticed – even i noticed, and i’ve got nothing to do with it – but who knows? if you’re not expecting people to add things to the matrix code, you probably don’t check if it looks ok all the time.

  • #44016

    Arthur
    Spectator

    tried to, got very far, but he will refrain from commenting, at least: that’s what i’ve heard / been told.[/quote:3def8tu6]
    Same results here. I’m quite sure I use different communication lines (at least not THAT straight to the band), so I can’t tell if Billy really knows. I guess he does, but since we don’t know his actions (put someone to court for this, or giving it a smirky smile from his couch), we can only guess. Both type of actions will lead to a short term silence, I can understand that.

  • #44017

    marigold
    Spectator

    or giving it a smirky smile from his couch.[/quote:3659fqn9]

    Billy is playing a joke? :!: :? :roll:

  • #44018

    Arthur
    Spectator

    wasn’t that rumour – that bc was upset about this – one of the main reasons to delete the tweet? and the start of the whole drama wave?
    well, well…[/quote:nz8laxbj]
    Haha, good one. But no, not really. Maybe for 5% only. It is more complicated than that (and the details will remain in the SPfreaks.com board room), but it has to do with what we stand for, and what we want to reach in the long term, as a website dedicated to chronicle all items with the name Smashing Pumpkins. And I explained about that earlier on, where we can have spicy discussions and in-depth articles based on thorough research (and no ego will be safe there as long as it stays respectful in the outings, that’s a non-discussable rule), and where we want to attract fans, collectors, AND the band, since we need their first hand information. It’s a thin line sometimes, it’s about timing, and the platforms we provide as an independant non-commercial website, but it was good times to reflect on that again with the mods. :)

  • #44019

    Sven
    Spectator

    If this was done as per a form or anything I do not know. He just did what he was told, indeed.[/quote:20fewc6c]
    It would be interesting to see the latest version of that form… Then we would know if it was added "sneakily", or with the knowledge of everybody involved in approving the (pressing of the) release. And it is also quite funny to read that the master-cutter did NOT know the meaning of the numbers when he was asked (or ordered by the form) to etch them. :lol:[/quote:20fewc6c]

    He didn’t mention any form. He just told me he was "ordered" to cut the numbers and didn’t know that these did translate indeed to these messages, until I mentioned it to him :)

    I don’t think we will get a scan from a form or the instruction from the master cutter, at least, I think I know enough now and I trust him. Therefore I don’t think I can ask him to provide this kind of ‘proof’. I’ll go by his word(s) and per that the fact that he was told to do this and did.

  • #44020

    Sven
    Spectator

    that’s the thing with these coded messages though: anyone could have added them. unless someone would have asked why the matrix code was suddenly a bit longer, nobody would have noticed.

    on the other hand, i would expect everyone involved to have noticed – even i noticed, and i’ve got nothing to do with it – but who knows? if you’re not expecting people to add things to the matrix code, you probably don’t check if it looks ok all the time.[/quote:37hf2526]

    maybe you don’t, normally.
    we check these. collectors do. The Smiths are infamous for the messages and there are numerous remarks in dead wax matrix codes. sometimes cryptic, sometime plain.

    this one was ordedered to be this way as per the label. so, yeah well… this was intentional… :)

  • #44021

    Sven
    Spectator

    tried to, got very far, but he will refrain from commenting, at least: that’s what i’ve heard / been told.[/quote:20kujnd8]
    Same results here. I’m quite sure I use different communication lines (at least not THAT straight to the band), so I can’t tell if Billy really knows. I guess he does, but since we don’t know his actions (put someone to court for this, or giving it a smirky smile from his couch), we can only guess. Both type of actions will lead to a short term silence, I can understand that.[/quote:20kujnd8]

    If I were BC and the label had ordered this and I would not be in the know I’d give them a good talking to and possibly even a public statement. The fact there’s a non-answer/statement from BC as per now, leaves me to think he was fully aware, just waited to see if someone would find out, had his fun about it and now is thinking maybe if this was too clever an act or not. Maybe then it’s best to just remain silent about it. And / or have private chuckle about it… :)

  • #44022

    Sven
    Spectator

    wasn’t that rumour – that bc was upset about this – one of the main reasons to delete the tweet? and the start of the whole drama wave?
    well, well…[/quote:skmotk8s]
    Haha, good one. But no, not really. Maybe for 5% only. It is more complicated than that (and the details will remain in the SPfreaks.com board room), but it has to do with what we stand for, and what we want to reach in the long term, as a website dedicated to chronicle all items with the name Smashing Pumpkins. And I explained about that earlier on, where we can have spicy discussions and in-depth articles based on thorough research (and no ego will be safe there as long as it stays respectful in the outings, that’s a non-discussable rule), and where we want to attract fans, collectors, AND the band, since we need their first hand information. It’s a thin line sometimes, it’s about timing, and the platforms we provide as an independant non-commercial website, but it was good times to reflect on that again with the mods. :)[/quote:skmotk8s]

    Amen to that.

  • #44023

    this one was ordedered to be this way as per the label. so, yeah well… this was intentional… :)[/quote:3p4f72qp]
    well of course it was intentional. obviously.
    it’s just not very clear whose intention it was.

    and i don’t think bc not commenting on it means anything. he could choose to remain silent either way.
    i think if he’s not behind it, aka the vandalism/graffiti scenario, he’d probably choose not to give this any extra public attention. it would be a bad move to make any statements about it. almost nobody knows about this, and he probably wants to keep it that way.
    if he is behind it, he could confirm this. but if you look at the messages themselves, one can see why he would choose not to. or maybe he’s waiting until people have figured it out. unfortunately, he still hasn’t found out about that, as for some mysterious reason, nobody is reporting on this. ;)

  • #44024

    Sven
    Spectator

    this one was ordedered to be this way as per the label. so, yeah well… this was intentional… :)[/quote:lcjbmfgk]
    well of course it was intentional. obviously.
    it’s just not very clear whose intention it was.

    and i don’t think bc not commenting on it means anything. he could choose to remain silent either way.
    i think if he’s not behind it, aka the vandalism/graffiti scenario, he’d probably choose not to give this any extra public attention. it would be a bad move to make any statements about it. almost nobody knows about this, and he probably wants to keep it that way.
    if he is behind it, he could confirm this. but if you look at the messages themselves, one can see why he would choose not to. or maybe he’s waiting until people have figured it out. unfortunately, he still hasn’t found out about that, as for some mysterious reason, nobody is reporting on this. ;)[/quote:lcjbmfgk]

    It was at least the intention of the label, as they ordered the master cutter to this.
    He was in touch with BC for far over a year in making these masters.
    I just can not imagine it was not BC who ordered this in this way.

  • #44025

    Arthur
    Spectator

    if he is behind it, he could confirm this. but if you look at the messages themselves, one can see why he would choose not to. or maybe he’s waiting until people have figured it out. unfortunately, he still hasn’t found out about that, as for some mysterious reason, nobody is reporting on this. ;)[/quote:3mtcuvm1]
    You think Billy never reads a forum? Or doesn’t have staff, or friends, who do that for him? I doubt that. I really doubt that.

  • #44026

    i don’t think billy reads messageboards, and i don’t think he has people who check the messageboards for him. but that’s just me. i know nothing.

  • #44027

    Sven
    Spectator

    i don’t think billy reads messageboards, and i don’t think he has people who check the messageboards for him. but that’s just me. i know nothing.[/quote:3o9lzvi5]

    He does.
    or: they do.
    Really.
    More often than I thought to be true, but he does, they do.

  • #44028

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Then, I guess, it is fair to make the assumption that Billy Corgan knows about this thread, or at least that the hidden messages have been found. Also journalists and reporters might have called slash emailed him about it already. But as long as he keeps his mouth shut, and takes no direct or indirect actions, what’s the story? Only a thin anecdote that a hidden message is found, and that the master cutter did what he was ordered to do. No people being fired, no riots in the streets, no fans burning their reissue vinyl. Only some hardcore nerds like us (and probably Billy and his incrowd) end up giggling about it.

    And we store the information in our Archive… Great! :P

  • #44029

    mirrorboxer
    Spectator

    Sounds like it’s a wrap people! Good job; Well done…See you out there.

  • #44030

    haha, this one’s funny:

    Joy Division – “Still”
    Side A: the chicken won’t stop
    Side B: (chicken feet marks)
    Side C: (chicken feet marks)
    Side D: the chicken stops here[/quote:3u6rqbbn][/quote:3u6rqbbn]
    i actually own this record. i’ve now checked it, and it indeed comes with these hidden messages. hahaha. i never knew.

  • #44031

    milan
    Spectator

    Interviewer mentions \"secret messages etched into the dead space before the label\"

    http://youtu.be/zd0mbIUUdng?t=4m36s

    But Billy doesn’t seem to lift even an eyebrow.

    (skip to 4:36)

  • #44032

    Interviewer mentions "secret messages etched into the dead space before the label"

    http://youtu.be/zd0mbIUUdng?t=4m36s

    But Billy doesn’t seem to lift even an eyebrow.

    (skip to 4:36)[/quote:32p1s1uw]
    omg!

    i bet the interviewer doesn’t even know about the messages on the siamese dream reissue.

  • #44033

    Sven
    Spectator

    Interviewer mentions "secret messages etched into the dead space before the label"

    http://youtu.be/zd0mbIUUdng?t=4m36s

    But Billy doesn’t seem to lift even an eyebrow.

    (skip to 4:36)[/quote:36t6bcov]

    nice find, great interview and there’s another nice one in the side-bar too which is also pretty cool!

  • #44034

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    if you rearrange the letters in ‘corgan’ and ‘solis’, you get ‘ass coloring’. might be another hidden message. :?:

  • #44035

    if you rearrange the letters in ‘corgan’ and ‘solis’, you get ‘ass coloring’. might be another hidden message. :?:[/quote:1obcqfp1]
    lol :lol:

  • #8520066

    sorry for bumping this ancient thread, but i believe we have an update.

    someone went to the VIP thing before the show at toronto yesterday (4 august 2015), and asked billy about these coded messages.
    this is what he came back with:
    the matrix codes were intentional… it was Billy’s idea… he thought it’d be fun to see if anyone would ever figure it out…. he said he was surprised when he realized people found about it within the first few months….

    (link: http://forums.netphoria.org/showpost.php?p=4209305&postcount=29)

    maybe a video of the q&a will pop up later. i’ve seen that a couple of the previous vip things are on youtube.

    why didn’t bc talk about these when we were wondering back in 2012?
    oh well, at least the mystery is solved now. i’m happy about that.

  • #8520126

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    cool!  you were the one to put it all together, don’t forget.  🙂

  • #8520129

    oh, don’t worry, i won’t forget. 🙂
    i still remember finding out while typing an email to you. i didn’t bother retyping it, so you can see it happening. heh.

    these are from 8 february 2012.

    me, 6pm:
    siamese dream vinyl.

    scans labels: see attachments.

    matrix codes:
    5099967929016 Siamese Dream Disc 1 Side 1 A+R Dallas SPGII S-27899 RE-2 6.21.3.11 25.15.21
    5099967928910 Siamese Dream Disc 1 Side 2 S-27900 RE-2 19.21.3.11 13.25 4.9.3.11
    5099967929016 Siamese Dream Disc 2 Side 1 A+R Dallas SPGII S-27901 RE-2 12.9.3.11 13.25 16.21.19.19.25
    5099967929115 SIAMESE DREAM DISC 2-SIDE 2-Re1 S-27902 RE-3 2.3.5 12.15.22.5 25.15.21

    weird matrix codes. not very consistent. but this is what’s on the records.

    you, 8pm:
    Cool, thanks.  Those matrix codes are indeed very strange…???

    me, 9pm:
    especially those numbers at the end. they’re not on the gish vinyl.

    i was wondering if they were maybe some code. as no number is higher than 26, maybe each letter stands for a letter in the alphabet. (1=a, 2=b, 3=c, …, 26=z)
    for disc 1 side 1, “6.21.3.11 25.15.21” would stand for “fuck you”. hmmm… this can’t be a coincidence. let’s check the other ones.

    oh gee. i think i’ve cracked the code. i wonder who’s behind this.

    the other ones are: “suck my dick”, “lick my pussy”, and “bce love you”.
    this probably means that the last one should start with 23.5 instead of 2.3.5, so the result would be “we love you”. but i’ve double checked, and it definitely says 2.3.5. oh well.

    i don’t know what to think of this. “lol”?
    would every copy of siamese dream on vinyl have the same codes?

  • #8520130

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    haha, it’s funny to read that.  like a transcription of your mind working it out as you went.  pretty funny to look back at.

    also odd that, “we” became “BC”e, even if on accident.  kind of says it all.

  • #8520142

    yeah, that is odd. could be intentional. who knows.

  • #8520193

    “it is out in the open. monte had notified the band before you had emailed them. that’s how we know billy is offended and more than likely hurt by this.”

    so it was monty who lied to us about this? make us believe that bc was offended, and as a result definitely not the one behind this?
    but why?
    is he really that manipulative?

    • #8520198

      pave
      Spectator

      when I first read that update about the recent Q&A  – I believed it. but by now… that guy never uploaded the video as he said he would. maybe he just imagined it – on acid and all!

  • #8520219

    hmmm… that’s a good point.

    i find it unlikely, but it’s not impossible that he made that up; that he never asked bc about the matrix codes.

  • #8520223

    marigold
    Spectator

    This VIP? They must have asked before/after, or made it up.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZa3FnElGDs

    Perhaps originally, Billy was lying (saying that he was offended) which would mean Monte was telling the truth  :O

  • #8520224

    No, not that one. It was at the Toronto VIP, on the 4th of August. This youtube video is from the 5th.

    And theoretically, that’s true. Maybe Belly was lying at first. But it is extremely unlikely that Monty was telling the truth. That’s just not in his character.

    • #8520305

      marigold
      Spectator

      Well, if anyone recorded it they are taking a while to upload it. Ask that guy if he needs techincal help!
      Monty will say whatever Billy told him 🙂

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