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I promise the announcement when it comes will not disappoint. Involves SP music from 1986 to the present…as big as it gets for us.[/quote:2z0r9m4z]
music from 1986 = the tape from Joe Shanahan ?
has the songs: There It Goes, Under Your Spell, Armed to the Teeth etc
…..and all the other music onwards that has been previously unreleased!
that must mean he has the rights to it all now?
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What is that tape from Joe Shanahan about? It rings a bell… But not clearly, as yet.
But when he refers to 1986, it has nothing to do with Smashing Pumpkins, I’m sure. Untill the beginning of 1987, Billy was still in a band called The Marked, and the only known official Smashing Pumpkins recording is from the end of 1987: the song I Fall. There are some (confirmed? I don’t know) rumours about a tape that might contain the earliest version of the song Hope, that was later re-recorded in 1992 and released on a promo called Still Becoming Apart. That promo came with some Machina, The Machines Of God CD albums in the US and UK/EU early 2000. Hope was a Marked song actually, from the 1985/1986 era. This is how far my memory goes…
And talking about rights, I guess he owns the rights of all the old songs already? There were issues with Virgin a few years ago, but that was about the later songs, starting from the Gish era… Billy settled the rights of a lot of old stuff (think 1987-1991) already by registering a handful of cassettes at the Library Of Congress. Well, let’s wait and see what this is about.
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Still Becoming Apart. That promo came with some Machina, The Machines Of God CD albums in the US and UK/EU early 2000.[/quote:1qzbyp64] Don’t forget Canada.
And there’s a difference between owning the rights to a song (Billy owns all the rights to his songs) and to a certain recording of a song (the record label owns the rights to almost all released recordings and more). By getting his tapes into the Library of Congress, I assume Billy only took care of the first part ("these are my songs").
I’m not entirely sure how things work, or how they were arranged by contract back in the day, but I assume if the record label paid for the studio, they ended up as the owner of the recordings. Dunno. Seems to make sense that they’d do it like that or in a similar way.
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And Canada yes, you’re right! Just checked that, but why isn’t it on SPfreaks yet? Who has it?
But yeah, that song rights thingy is a mystery to me sometimes. Same for Image Rights and other Copy Rights. Billy sells Today (was it?) to some creditcard company, but he is still allowed to play it live (makes sense of course) and then what? He probably can not sell it again to any other commercial party I guess? Does that mean on the other hand that he owns the rights of the recordings of the Today era songs? Or can he re-record it in another (or same) studio and sell that new recording? Is he allowed to make a new mix of the old recordings and sell it? And what when he shares the rights of some songs with his ex-bandmates (Soma, I Am One, for example)? I don’t want to know…
Just curious why he is mentioning 1986 in relationship with Smashing Pumpkins, while everybody knows that it is another Smashing Pumpkins timeframe curve that he is selling (which I’m not buying).
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regarding selling today: i don’t think he sold the song. i think he just allowed them to use the song in a commercial. i don’t think they own the song now. or do they? can they now start releasing compilation cds with today on it? doubt it.
actually, i’m pretty sure the record company still owns the rights to the recording, so billy wouldn’t be able to sell that, even if he wanted to. -
yeah, I think they just have rights to use it.
Just curious why he is mentioning 1986 in relationship with Smashing Pumpkins, while everybody knows that it is another Smashing Pumpkins timeframe curve that he is selling (which I’m not buying).[/quote:3bd9pk4z]
I think that tape might be from 1988 actually.
Billy might be talking about songs by The Marked as well. We’ll see.
songs from 1986: Mao Say Tongue, Scary Neurotic Song, Anima Animus, and about 20 others!
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I promise the announcement when it comes will not disappoint. Involves SP music from 1986 to the present…as big as it gets for us.[/quote:3hs0rjir]
music from 1986 = the tape from Joe Shanahan ?
has the songs: There It Goes, Under Your Spell, Armed to the Teeth etc
…..and all the other music onwards that has been previously unreleased!
that must mean he has the rights to it all now?[/quote:3hs0rjir]
The tape you are referring that Joe owns is from 1988, and yes he still has it since I talked to him over the phone about it a couple of months ago.
Billy is referring to the 1986 material he made when he returned from florida to chicago after the marked broke up in october 1986. When he returned to chicago he started doing solo demo’s which are basically billy corgan solo. Ron Roesing and Len Ayala also collaborated in some songs. In 1986 he started a project he called "The Nothing Ever Changes" and it was his attempt for a first album. He is referring to this material in 1986, before he met James. The "Greta Garbo" or "Hope" tape are exactly from this time too (late 1986-early 1987). Both this tapes (NEC and Hope tape) are in archives and I’m assuming there’s even more stuff about this years there.
I’m really excited about this because I’ve been researching this years (1986-1989) for years and now we know for sure that the stuff will come out.
Check out the thread I started more than a year ago, it’s called Billy Corgan Early Demo’s if you are interested.
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Arthur:
And about the early Hope song, yes that’s the \"Hope\" Tape or \"Greta Garbo\" tape from late 1986-early 1987.
I don’t think it was re-recorded in 1992, Dave Asselin says it’s the same as the Hope tape from the marked period. He owns the tape, he confirmed this, as well as giving a copy to billy which I assume it’s in the archives. -
The tape you are referring that Joe owns is from 1988, and yes he still has it since I talked to him over the phone about it a couple of months ago.
Billy is referring to the 1986 material he made when he returned from florida to chicago after the marked broke up in october 1986. When he returned to chicago he started doing solo demo’s which are basically billy corgan solo. Ron Roesing and Len Ayala also collaborated in some songs. In 1986 he started a project he called "The Nothing Ever Changes" and it was his attempt for a first album. He is referring to this material in 1986, before he met James. The "Greta Garbo" or "Hope" tape are exactly from this time too (late 1986-early 1987). Both this tapes (NEC and Hope tape) are in archives and I’m assuming there’s even more stuff about this years there.
I’m really excited about this because I’ve been researching this years (1986-1989) for years and now we know for sure that the stuff will come out.
Check out the thread I started more than a year ago, it’s called Billy Corgan Early Demo’s if you are interested.[/quote:15m9ulnh]
cool, thanks!
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Billy is referring to the 1986 material he made when he returned from florida to chicago after the marked broke up in october 1986.[/quote:3k5qoqm2]
I was thinking The Marked broke up early 1987, since we know about this The Marked tape, that obviously contains demos from January 1987?http://www.spfreaks.com/default.aspx?pa … &item=1713
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Arthur:
And about the early Hope song, yes that’s the "Hope" Tape or "Greta Garbo" tape from late 1986-early 1987.
I don’t think it was re-recorded in 1992, Dave Asselin says it’s the same as the Hope tape from the marked period. He owns the tape, he confirmed this, as well as giving a copy to billy which I assume it’s in the archives.[/quote:lj9n2t0l]
Jesse Miller stated in 2000, Hope was (re-)recorded in Spring 1992, in the Soundworks Studios, together with Kerry Brown. They also recorded Bullet Train To Osaka, Starla & Plume during that session.http://www.netphoria.org/recording/recording.htm (search for Hope)
And that version of Hope was released on Still Becoming Apart, as far as I know? And it makes sense, because when I listen to Hope, it doesn’t sound like it comes from a 1986/1987 cassette. But I leave that judgement to the sound experts…
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Yes, that Marked tape contains material even from January 1987. But the band broke up in October 1986. There are a very few songs from that tape that were recorded in Chicago by billy, between oct 1986-jan 87. I think \"Earth Stood Still\", \"Christina\", and \"Now that I feel\" are from this period of time. \"Now that I feel\" features Len Ayala in bass and \"Christina\" features Ron in vocals. I would say the marked broke up in florida because when he returned to chicago he started doing all these solo demos that are in the archives. Ron would say it was still the marked, but it really wasn’t, it was billy’s solo demos with the help of Len and sometimes Ron. He talks about it in his confessions.
Interesting pointing out what Jesse Miller said, I never heard that he said that. It might be true though, but it’s odd that Dave would state otherwise.
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Ron would say it was still the marked, but it really wasn’t, it was billy’s solo demos with the help of Len and sometimes Ron.[/quote:2dj5d4eu]
It might be true, but written history overrules the oral history here, if it was to me. At some point when this cassette was made by Billy, he clearly labeled it The Marked, he clearly writes the dates and gives credits to the people involved in making the cassette (Ronald Roesing in this case). My question would be in general: who is so eager to say that The Marked broke up in October 1986, to whom’s interest is it that the broke-up date is set to October 1986? Think about it… On the other hand, let’s be honest, Billy Corgan is not always very accurate when it comes to dating (I mean songs here, not girls… that last subject can be discussed in another topic!
). See Mashed Potatoes, he made several mistakes in dating the songs. To Billy, songs are sometimes 1 year older then they really are.Interesting pointing out what Jesse Miller said, I never heard that he said that. It might be true though, but it’s odd that Dave would state otherwise.[/quote:2dj5d4eu]
Yeah same thoughts here, and I’m neutral about it, I don’t care when and where it was recorded. All I can say is: the song Hope doesn’t sound like a copy from a 1980’s cassette, to me it sounds like a very proper studio recording, in line with the budgets of Smashing Pumpkins in 1992. Wouldn’t you say so too? And maybe Dave can be asked for a second opinion also, since he can put the 2 versions next to each other… -
October 1986 is the date that billy and ron returned to florida. To tell you the truth, we don’t know if The Marked was still in Chicago after that, but if billy will release stuff from 1986 it has to be his solo work. I’m sure he’s learned his lesson after releasing that minute video of the marked in Vieuphoria which ended in a big lawsuit. Also, he started the Nothing Ever Changes project in 1986, and lasted up to 1987 and this is not The Marked, it’s billy’s solo work. What I’m trying to say is that I think he will release the real NEC, and that \"Greta Garbo\" tape instead of The Marked material. Still, I’m assuming there are a few Marked songs in both of these tapes, at least there are in the Greta tape.
It’s true that billy sometimes is not good dating his music. But hey we took as granted that \"I Fall\" was recorded in dec 1987.
And yes, it’s true Hope doesn’t sound like an 80’s tape, but who knows maybe it is…. truth and time will tell my friend. -
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yeah, if you check your copies, arthur, you may find you actually own it as well. it’s only denoted by looking for the CA Virgin logo on the CD itself (if i remember correctly, anyway).[/quote:2k33fjzg]
I checked and I found out it is really the US and the EU/UK (HUT logo) copies that I own. So I still need the Canadian copy… Let’s see what our old-time friend toad32r (long time no hear, mate! All well? How are you doing?) has to offer. -
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ok, the copy for sale is (just looking at sleeve and print on CD) looks to be U.S. Copyrights on sleeve say…This compilation (c) & (c) 2000 Virgin Records America, Inc. and the Smashing Pumpkins. All rights reserved. For promotional use only-not for resale.www.smashingpumpkins.com http://www.virginrecords.com
Is there anything from the disc itself to determine? (black disc with barely visible track list around outside of disc says the exact same thing with a virgin symbol and Cd symbol
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@mirrorboxer:
you’re awesome, but I think you were first… LOL, this is derailing big time. Sorry everybody!
I just uploaded pics of the Canadian EP, made by Cool As Ice Cream. Check out the Virgin Canada logo on the CD.
/CA/CD%20CA%20Still%20Becoming%20Apartd.jpg)
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I promise the announcement when it comes will not disappoint. Involves SP music from 1986 to the present…as big as it gets for us.[/quote:3tlwr4xa]
I just read this on the Smashing Pumpkins forum, it made me rofl! … when "they" "reunited" without all the members, you’ll recall they had to blur the lines of history relating to what technically defined "sp inc". They revised it to only include billy. So now sp dates to anything billy has recorded after leaving the marked in florida.[/quote:3tlwr4xa]
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