Forum Replies Created
yep. this is more like it. song wise. production wise.
and i’m not saying this because of the massive rock guitars and i’m still not out on the (slightly?) processed or triggered? drum sound(s) but this is a poor digital version so i will wait for the full hi def master version on that one…
pretty awesome track with loads of energy, short and snappy, bit Zeitgeist-like in some ways, but also some old school elements with a dash of futurism/now-ness thrown in for good measure and hey: it all works…2014.10.30 at 6:18 pm in reply to: Adore Listening Party October 25th The Netherlands #47714
By Adore B-sides do you mean the Czarina/Once in a While type of songs?
Or did you refer to the raw/more gothic sounding songs like Saturnine, Because You Are, Cash Car Star?
P.S. I’m just listening to the Crestfallen demo from the F&EOMM tape. This is not on the boxset but is a beauty![/quote:3bbjjy2w]
I mean grouping together the b-sides like Czarina, Summer, Once in a While and the like.
Saturnine, CCS et al would go with the Batman/Ransom-batch2014.10.28 at 1:27 pm in reply to: Adore Listening Party October 25th The Netherlands #47711
very nice and in depth talks with the guys, the die hard posse so to speak
also: got the idea to try and put together the albums that could have been at the fork in the road that was the end of the MCIS tour…
– \"the Batman\"-sound album
– the acoustic up close and personal/ bedroom (demo) album
– the adore b-sides
we discussed how it might have gone several ways back then and with the box set you kinda get a lot of cues as to where BC was working towards in several different directions… those did manifest and coalesce in / on Adore, but still there’s a wealth of material (what’s new!) which might point into other directions and that could kinda fill a nice coherent set of songs as some kind of an era album / sampler…
just some thoughts, have some free time soon, will try to get around to arranging stuff and discussing the progress here
Just quoting what Billy said yesterday or two days ago in an interview (Gigwise):
"It’s interesting about Monuments To An Elegy is that every song is pretty different,"
"Really, it’s sort of like the best of that kind of song".
So yes : "the album could be a wholly different story altogether. " [/quote:2vp7gxmo]
Very well then!
yeah: go ahead and enjoy the song if that’s what you feel like, sure thing.
your saying \"it’s still a good song\" is a much of value or lack thereof as my critique that it’s below BC’s par, pretty much shite and sadly a sorry excuse for a smashing track…
just try to take into account the hype and grand stories BC’s been telling about this new record, his speeches about the music industry and the state thereof now et cetera… ok, fair enough, and here we go… back he comes with this… to me this song begs the obvious rhetorical questions I raised: in what or whose universe does BC think, really think and feel, Being Beige is the big, massive, smashing comeback tune that will make everybody sit straight up and pay attention in a positive way? that is pretty much totally beyond me. not only because of what’s around musically in rock or whatever, but because of the song itself, the mix, the production et cetera. and with the universe I mean BC’s…
still: the album could be a wholly different story altogether.
oh and by the way: please don’t imply things I haven’t said, like yearning for a return to the 90s or whatever… p-p-please… as that’s by far not what i was or am saying.
but remember this: back in the 90s with the disfunctional family TSP was, D’Arcy was around and – BC has said so much himself – she was one of the very few people capable of telling him he was full of shit and thus keeping a very strict level of \"quality control\" in terms of keeping matters in check… this is not to advocate a return to those difficult times or a comeback of D’Arcy. this is to say however that i have the feeling a D’Arcy-like figure is very much so missed in more recent times when it comes to BC’s releases.
oh well.. it’s just pretty amusing to read the blind adoration… dedication to TSP is what brings us here, so that’s a good thing…2014.10.21 at 6:30 pm in reply to: What is the latest Pumpkins related item you bought? (cont.) #46078
sure and exactly, you’d expect a rocker or something to follow up on BC’s hype talk…
and yeah, marketing money goes a long way, but only goes so far… however, somehow I think I can imagine Being Beige getting some airplay in the US here and there…
so that’s why BMG might see something in the track I can’t hear…
yeah makes sense…
however – with Oceania being Teargarden material too…
i just can’t help but seeing Oceania as something totally / wholly different in terms of songwriting level, production, mixing et cetera…
of course this song could be the odd one out and I will still be back to give the album a decent chance, but I just can not see why this would be the pre-album single…
being a dud that it is…2014.10.21 at 5:21 pm in reply to: What is the latest Pumpkins related item you bought? (cont.) #46076
i guess this just goes to show that the freaks will pay top dollar for a promo, but the audience at large, the people out there don’t care anymore or have a listen and stop caring…
how can you market something like Being Beige? that’s trying to sell a car without an engine or a dead horse.
Wouldn’t have been a winner in the Zwan era…
Horrible mix, drums totally destroyed, nice melodic guitar part, artrocious singing and the distorted mix is just plain strange and muddy and bizarre…
All in all – WHY???
If this should be the big new statement and Being Beige the first example of this record, then just HOW???
Is there really no one around to tell Corgan this is just way below his par…?
In what or whose universe could this sorry excuse for a song be considered great?
Oh well… Oceania was very great, but it’s back to the rest of the Teargarden bummer stuff…
Or like someone mentioned: \"It’s called Being Beige because \"Shite\" wasn’t pretentious enough\"
The Dodger Stadium live tracks sound extremely crystal clear and lack some punch for my taste – a bit on the thin side – the bootlegs are much more MASSIVE (tape saturation / tape noise sometimes works wonders)… but then again, the band is splendid here!
So I checked… It’s four versions of Blissed and Gone
Blissed and Gone (Sadlands demo) = the version from Adore Demos I and II
Blissed and Gone (CRC demo) = rough take
Blissed and Gone (Drone version) = subdued droney version
Blissed and Gone (JO/SBA) – production master with drum machine
Pretty awesome to see this evolution up close
I am not quite sure now if we have 3 or 4 Blissed and Gone versions…
Blissed and Gone (Sadlands demo) = the version from Adore Demos I and II
Blissed and Gone (CRC demo)
Blissed and Gone (Drone version)
Blissed and Gone as appears on SBA and JO > Now, I need to check if one of the other two on Adore Deluxe is the same…
Once again – a very important song to BC, tried so many different approaches and it doesn’t get to be on the album or even a release as b-side… Amazing…
Hmmm… in that case I think I’ll blast the cd’s from home and see if they can hear me all the way in Bergen op Zoom
the first four tracks from the Live disc 6…
From Sao Paulo session????
does anyone know which session?
both SPFC and SPLRA don’t list this semi-acoustic session that sounds like a radio session without audience.
the takes are AMAZING!!!!!! the recording is crystal clear!!!!
also: very smart move to take show from the latter stages of the tour as the band shows sublime form…!
what’s also pretty clear from several songs ( like Do You Close Your Eyes?) is that BC was playing around with a lot of ideas melodywise that landed on the Batman-tracks… these outtakes might not be awesome in their own right, but – more than any other re-issue before – these do project an amazing sonic image of TSP in this time frame with creativity floating in several songs and finding its place in the final Batman-tracks… sonically this is somewhat between Adore and Eye, with some Ransom-inflections. and: it makes total sense…
also: with MCIS / TAFH the band jammed out a lot of tracks and used snippets and riffs to build songs… with Adore its obviously the case BC did most of the work and worked on ideas into \"songs\" and eventually with the help of producers et al (most definately Flood) into real songs. there’s very little to none \"jamming\" here, but I guess you could see these \"songs\" as \"jams\" of sorts…
extremely interesting historically and I really feel BC has hit a home run with this re-issue! by far the very very very best so far!
Gish > BC kinda did not want to dive into what went on before, as in: going back to the really early years with the earliest versions of what would become the hippy trippy rock sound of Gish, plus: there’s not that much from the studio as there was not much time nor budget.
SD > BC kinda went the same way as with Gish and SD was kind of scattershot with lots of ideas not fitting in the monolith sound and thus relegated to b-side and eventually PI status…
PI > basically that’s PI plus a single disc version of Mashed Potatoes and the first demo tape
MCIS > paints a bloody amazing picture of the creativity at the peak, building the album with all the numerous takes, demos, et al.
TAFH > true display of all the creative forces at work live (Double Door) and in studio jams and trying out totally different areas…
Now with Adore – which in my opinion is maybe the most coherent TSP album sonically and also musically – all seems to click quite amazingly in terms of presenting the building blocks and the ground work plus working towards the album version and also the translation to the live stage…
Or maybe I just rekindled my love for the album that’s my most cherished one in the collection…
a couple more >
Disc 5: Malice, Callous and Fools
08. Blissed and Gone (Drone Version) > meh, didn’t just click with this song is my guess, so many versions tried and tested…
09. Heaven (Instrumental/ Sadlands Demo) > bloody great rocking song; never heard anything like this before from the Adore-sessions era…
10. Daphne Descends (Matt Walker Reimagined/ 2014) > supreme version; my preferred version; epic and highly digitally enhanced with lots of extra layers brought out – a true stunner!!! I would not mind the least bit to hear the whole album redone / remixed by Matt – the Nitzer Ebb-beat (slightly Front 242-ish) is menacing here!
11. Saturnine (Matt Walker Reimagined/ 2014) > moving further into gothic territory, gets pretty close to the Batman-songs; futurtistic rock galore, quite haunting and pounding – again: supreme version; my prefeered version and I can very much so see this work on a dark / gothic / wave dance night dance floor – vocals very much up front and direct; would have been a smashing single and only now it occurs to me how akin this song is to Ava Adore, like sonic siblings…
SPOILER ALERT – SPOILER ALERT – SPOILER ALERT
just started to listen and have a lot of reviews to do and other work, so haven’t had a chance to dive into this amazing treasure trove because it is so much this time around…
however, remarkable >
Disc 3: In a State of Passage
07. What If? (Streeterville Demo) > stunning song!!!!
10. The Ethers Tragic (Instrumental/ 2014 Mix/ CRC Demo) > very nice insight into the building of the Batman tracks
11. The Guns of Love Disastrous (Instrumental/ 2014 Mix/ CRC Demo)
15. For Martha (Take 1/ CRC Demo)
18. For Martha (Take 2/ Instrumental/ CRC Demo) > both are amazing!!!!
Disc 4: Chalices, Palaces and Deep Pools
01. For Martha (Symphonic Snippet/ Instrumental) > a nice, the electric solo part layer!!!
02. Crestfallen (Matt Walker Reimagined/ 2014) > superb remix!
08. Eye (2014 Mix/ From the âLost Highwayâ Soundtrack) > amazing remix, much more depth!
09. Saturnine (For Piano and Voice) > meh, pretty damn awful true demo, loads of work to be done there…
10. Cash Car Star (Matt Walker Reimagined/ 2014) > damn, loads of work needed to be done there, luckily it was done later
12. Perfect (No Strings Version) > very dry version, a brilliant song, love this sparse take
15. Indecision (Sadlands Demo) > uhm, why? BC tinkering with electronics without the assistance of Bon Harris and Bjorn, kinda cute…
Disc 5: Malice, Callous and Fools
01. Let Me Give the World to You (Adore Outtake) > brilliant song, just doesn’t fit on the album in any concievable way as far as I am concerned…agree with BC, might have been a nice stand alone single, does have a feel quite like Untitled…
02. Tear (From Digital Transfer) > massive!
03. Cross (Adore Outtake) > features some nice cross overs into Glass & The Ghost Children meets Eye…
04. Because You Are (Adore B-Side) > LOUD!
more to follow at the Listening Party2014.09.11 at 10:40 am in reply to: Adore Listening Party October 25th The Netherlands #47696
if i have a way to get there i will be there!
very nice, totally awesome dude!
and i especially like the fact that apart from interesting anecdotes for the SPFreaks there’s some really cool NEWS in his answers! me like2014.08.07 at 9:00 am in reply to: Mr Corgan announces HUGE vault release on vinyl this year #47637
Yeah, my bets are on a bunch of 7" and maybe one vinyl album. Although it are 60+ tapes, it is hard to imagine they contain (60*60)/4 = 900 different songs from 1987 – 1990. All tapes are transferred so the 25-50 songs (and I’m stretching it with that last number I think) that have a minimum of quality to be released, can be picked.[/quote:emqrx2ui]
totally agree with Arthur here…
even in 98 money was no issue whatsoever for TSP/Virgin. however: Adore was a bloody mess in terms of promotion and singles. Virgin fucked up big time there. and didn’t invest in the campaign. so technically it’s not about the money and all about the money… as in: not too expensive, but not willing to pay… remember Virgin considered Adore pretty much DOA.
BC was also not in the best of moods concerning the singles issue. there was rumoured to be talk of having the whole of Adore remixed as an artistic statement. I got the impression BC thought of Adore as a possible remix in terms of electronic new wave or triphop or hiphop or even harsher EBM styles and possibly ambient like… I’ve heard and read about several other parties having been asked but not commissioned to do remixes. but no names and no production surfaced, so maybe this idea was scrapped pretty early on.
With Virgin/BC fucking things up in the promo and single department (heck: it’s the worst period in TSP history when you look at b-sides – tadaaah that’s why there’s an immens overkill on the re-issue now: with the other albums BC pretty much released A LOT already, with Adore there’s only a tiny bit) they had Puffy’s remixes pretty much already finished to go product but where to fit those in? they went with mixes that went nicely together – Puffy’s would have been a strange fit. and it’s my belief Virgin didn’t want a standalone Puffy remixes release which could have been an idea.
also Puffy WILL have been paid for the remixes. he did not however get royalties and the like he’d get when these were released, but of course the man didn’t do these for nothing, hoping they might be released. it just doesn’t work like that. exception might be he did those because BC asked him (weren’t the two of them kinda cool/close back then?) somewhat privately to do these remixes, but since these ended up on Virgin cdr’s some contractual stuff must have been cleared with Puffy concerning these remixes at some stage, not for release that is, but just to produce the remixes in the first place.2014.08.06 at 8:30 am in reply to: Mr Corgan announces HUGE vault release on vinyl this year #47635
well… yeah that seems to be a lot…
but still: BC didn’t put a timeframe on this, so it might be spread over several years…
and: he didn’t say LP did he?
now it might be LP’s but I gather that’s pushing things, a lot.
i read it so that BC was implying a combination of 7\", 10\", 12\" and LP’s.
maybe even only 7\"s somewhat like The Vault Jack White is maintaining.
now 12 x 7\" of early TSP, BC-solo early stuff would amount to 24 tracks of pretty decent quality, plus say one LP for Nothing Ever Changes and one 10\" for the Chicago21 show…
pretty much looking forward to this a lot as there are quite some gems hidden there from those days.
also: 17 missing from the Mono release? strange…[/quote:g98ocvie]
the original mono release (on vinyl) also didn’t have 17. it’s the same mix, but now released – "for the first time" – on cd.
i guess the lp reissue will be the stereo mix, including 17, on 4 lp sides. this just seems the most likely scenario to me.[/quote:g98ocvie]
yeah but it’s quite strange as 17 would fit now and didn’t fit on the 3LP sides of the mono vinyl…
oh well… minor detail.
hmmm the BC list looks somewhat better, still a lot of material we already have… seems this was not that productive a phase for the band and still Adore gets the full deal very extensive release while SD and Gish or even PI were quite smaller in the bonus section…
also: 17 missing from the Mono release? strange…
oh well, i will be getting this too, might skip the vinyl though… any news if the LP is mono or stereo?
so the "for cd-single use only, at rabbit in the moon’s request" means to me that RITM had the say of whether or not he wanted to use his mix and distribute it out. does he like it? is he proud of it enough to put it on a single? if he wants it on there, he needs to request it and we’ll include it.[/quote:117p2c6c]
interesting. but i’m reading it differently.
wouldn’t it have said "for cd-single use, at rabbit in the moon’s request only" or ""for cd-single use, only at rabbit in the moon’s request" if it meant what it means to you?
i gave it some more thought, and the way i read it, is that ritm requested that this was only to be used for the cd-single. so if there ever was a vinyl single, this should not be included. or if they were ever looking for teitbite remixes for a compilation cd, this remix shouldn’t be used. cd-single only. at the request of the artist.
does that make sense?
and i’m going to assume that this 5-track promo cd-r is indeed the only known cd source of this remix. until i heard of this cd, i thought this track was vinyl-only.[/quote:117p2c6c]
i am with you CAIC as per the reading of the "cd-r only" request.