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[url:gpa5x5ul]http://www.nme.com/news/the-smashing-pumpkins/50159[/url:gpa5x5ul]
[url:gpa5x5ul]http://www.smashingpumpkins.com/pressrelease.php[/url:gpa5x5ul]dunno what to make of this…
the new songs pretty much suck, the marketing scheme is sketchy and imho way too ambitious with all these subsequent releases planned and now there’s even two more newbies needed to form a touring band of any substance which is to tour the world to drum up some kind of renewed interest? i just don’t feel the vibe anywhere anymore… i guess the Holy Flame was fading from the second leg of the Zeitgeist tour and i just don’t see BC getting the shit back on track any time soon… -
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Yeah, this really sucks. I was very angry for the RS article last week and now this. It’s just not even worth to be a dedicated fan anymore.
I still have interest in the early history and their 1988-2000 music. I like the new stuff, but this is too much.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the new bass player is mike byrne’s old bandmate… haha
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I felt I wanted to blow out a very aggressive rant against this, but let me try to say it a little nicely…
The impatient, greedy, stingy part of the fanbase should be a little bit more humble in their opinions of an artist that is currently giving away a huge load of studio music FOR FREE the next few years. That has already been giving away almost 1,000 live concert recordings, also for free. This same fanbase could also take into consideration that it is not Billy’s fault that people get pregnant (unless he did it himself
) and decide not to tour with the band anymore…I have hard times saying it is a \"sketchy marketing policy\". Why? In the case of Teargarden he announced the album, he gave some details and so far he keeps his promises, as far as I can see. And I cannot criticise that he hires youngsters also… So fucking what? Mike is so far a truly talented drummer, and I respect him deeply, to take the challenge and to proof that he is up to the task! And what would we know about the vibes and holy flames over there, when we know that good touring musicians will practice and play with the band in just a few weeks? What happened in 1996-2000? We’ve seen several new people joining the band and giving the band a fresh and passionate input, even during an already planned tour! What you think about the recent songs is not my business of course… But sorry guys, for the rest I have hard times connecting to you… but it’s OK. I still love you all! Rock on! \\m/
Oh, by the way, don’t say I never criticise Billy. I set up rants for the start year 1987 for the Smashing Pumpkins, when he says it’s 1988. And I’m also very disappointed that the Vault releases (first the Gish era box, next the Archive releases) are being cancelled. We guys from SPfreaks were in contact with his management to set up a cross-linked online Discography that would be totally awesome to check out for the fans, but then suddenly the SP website was changed to a tiny homepage with a forum only… Bye bye Discography!
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well arthur, thnx.
giving away below par music, doesn’t mean the giving away part in itself is not to be appreciated. i find it a bold and ambitious move, but just feel most of the post-2000 music just doesn’t do the TSP name very much good.
music for free is a great idea; bad music for free is just what it is and a little bit gratuit…
i’m not faulting BC for bandmates getting pregnant. i’m only faulting him on his work. his recent material doesn’t hold up against the older stuff, at least to me. the band falling apart isn’t helping things either in terms of this incarnation of TSP amounting to anything more than the BC solo band with the TSP name just to be able to play the old songs. that’s not what the TSP used to stand for imho. the razor sharp cutting edge and vanguard attitude seems to have been lost musically in recent years. circumstances such as losing JC will in fact have contributed to this demise, but yeah well; why would JC of all people leave?
the marketing policy is sketchy imho because the release over time of so many individual releases in expensive format is asking a lot from an almost non-existing fanbase when compared to the high times in the 90s. an overblown concept album didn’t really work that well for TSP before, remember MACHINA and why would it work now, even over such a prolonged period of time. attention span seems to be at an all time low you know?!
young people in the band is no problem. it’s just that Ginger and Lisa were experienced in the TSP touring band. Mike does a decent job. maybe the new people are better than Ginger and Lisa. with a rock band it’s not just about the playing ability; people tend to identify with people in the band. losing JC and now Ginger and Lisa too, this factor is quite lost. therefore i can’t fault people for looking to TSP as the new BC solo band under a different guise; just using the TSP name because of past accomplishments. don’t get me wrong: i might be proven wrong, but there’s very little to go by in recent times to have blind faith in things not going wrong again for TSP. and to be quite honest; TSP is still too dear to my heart to see whither away in a barely decent form both musical and per personel. it’s just that it all seems like a downward spirl to me; with the new material being even below the not that high par of the American Gothic EP (which was a commercial failure of epic proportions) and with this material not being quite popular in the current music market. i just feel TSP had done best to burn out brightly in 2000 and leave it at that in stead of fading away into overblown massive concepts.
and hey; who the hell needs an obelisk???? i’d prefer a plain white sleeved 12\" white label with two stunning songs any day… but then again: who knows what’s in the cards…
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Let me bring in 2 recent personal quotes about this, from other related topics… Hope you don’t mind!
Quote 1
If you see all that \"limited edition\" releases out there, then this Smashing Pumpkins one is a little outstanding in a good way, just my humble opinion. I mean, which band can say they do 44 songs on 11 releases? Who does 4/6 of the songs for free in a pre-release? Who adds a funny little item like a \"hand-carved \"leopard stone\" obelisk, about 2\" tall, similar to marble\" to a music release?*
So yeah, I’m good with it for the moment. I’m only curious if there will many Made in <<whatevercountry>> releases, but I guess not. And if 99 out of 10,000 will have a different obelisk, well, I don’t care that much. Let the obelisk lovers be happy with that, I’m happy with the music.
*OK, let’s be honest, I recall such thing happened before. It’s not really that new that a not-really-music-related item is added to a music release. For example, my favourite band in the 1970’s (KISS) added a cardboard gun to their 1977 Love Gun album.
Quote 2
My judgements.
Song For A Son: 9/10 (the guitar solo really does it for me!
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Widow Wake My Mind: 6/10
A Stitch In Time: 7.5/10I’m quite happy with what is released so far for the Teargarden project, and whatever you think of the Smashing Pumpkins… but Billy Corgan was and is and most probably always will be the main man of the band, if not THE BAND itself. I have no issues with that, and I don’t understand why some people keep coming back to any old band members.
Also I don’t understand why some people stick to some \"era\" of the band when they were \"the best\" or \"on top of anything\". Of course I have my favourite (mostly the rock/metal) songs also, but over the 24 years that we know Billy, being a quite productive musician, he has ALWAYS changed his style, and with every album we learned a different side of him/his band. For me, that is why he is so attractive to me as a musician… And that’s also why I will always be curious to what he is going to release next. Just my 2 cents here…
/Unquote 1 and 2
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Let me bring in 2 recent personal quotes about this, from other related topics… Hope you don’t mind!
I’m quite happy with what is released so far for the Teargarden project, and whatever you think of the Smashing Pumpkins… but Billy Corgan was and is and most probably always will be the main man of the band, if not THE BAND itself. I have no issues with that, and I don’t understand why some people keep coming back to any old band members.
Also I don’t understand why some people stick to some "era" of the band when they were "the best" or "on top of anything". Of course I have my favourite (mostly the rock/metal) songs also, but over the 24 years that we know Billy, being a quite productive musician, he has ALWAYS changed his style, and with every album we learned a different side of him/his band. For me, that is why he is so attractive to me as a musician… And that’s also why I will always be curious to what he is going to release next. Just my 2 cents here…
/Unquote 1 and 2[/quote:40ty7zat]
what i was mostly trying to say is exactly that TSP was not and now is BC’s thing per se. The work produced with D’Arcy and James and JC has a visceral energy lacking from all subsequent works BC’s been involved in/with. It’s not bringing up the old band members; it’s basically just the very fact the band from JC’s joining in 1988 was just that: a band, with BC being the main creative force to be reckoned with, but it worked as a unit and that unit was TSP. JC and BC tried their best to revive that spirit in 2007 and failed on a massive scale; ‘If All Goes Wrong’ remember… JC quit. Now BC’s the only TSP-member left in the fold. There’s just nothing TSP about the band anymore than the fact BC’s in the band and he’s using this band name. Heck to me even Zwan could have been more deserving of the TSP name than this collection of random individuals around BC. And that’s the whole point: TSP turned into a real band pretty soon after the band got together. Now we have a coming and going of band members with BC the Czar mapping out a course of 11 subsequent releases in an ambitious concept and to be honest; it’s just a BC solo project under the TSP name to me. And that’s not TSP to me. And i even feel it hurts the legacy of TSP; the band turning into a laughing stock with all these insane 11 release-scheme plans and concepts based on the tarot and all while the music trails behind and leaves a lot to be desired, not only in terms of older TSP prowess, but also in terms of inherent quality. The three EP1 songs for Teargarden (how bloody stupid is the word-play of the title by the way, cringeworthy) wouldn’t have made it past B-side status 10 years ago, left alone 15 years ago. So there you have the decline of TSP…
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oh my god…
just now i read the RS article…
BC seems to be in quite a sorry state of mind to unleash this shit storm in the major press.
at least for me personally there has to be quite a lot of mending to occur in terms of future music or interviews to regain any respect for this sorry excuse of an artist and band which BC and TSP is at the moment.
there’s no way BC can claim the way he talks straight the whole JC story is ok, in any case; dirty laundry in the press BC? get a clue and a life… this is getting insane.the killing of the website.
the situation with JC and him quitting.
Ginger and Lisa quitting.
the whole overblown concept stuff.
the Jessica S. situation.
and now this with the JC diss and all in RS…this sure does seem like a downward spiral speeding towards the absolute zero.
sure enough i’m glad there’s a lot of great music in the TSP legacy to enjoy…
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Oh well, I guess I’m standing rather alone with my opinions then…
Not that I care though. In general, I’m not that much influenced by press articles. Except when the hatred being spit out towards Billy is over the top, like on some other forum we all know, or when in some utterly stupid Dutch concert review I read a few years ago, Billy is being flamed to death… Then I disagree, and avoid going there again.
Also I’m not that worried about the future of Billy Corgan/Smashing Pumpkins/their music releases. Life is all about ups and downs, what’s new… I read that Rolling Stone interview thingy with the Jimmy quotes* almost a week ago already, and I was like \"yeah, well, here we go again… what’s new in the music industry and the press that writes about every artists’ fart…\" Billy Corgan has been named so many things all his career, and some of it is kinda true, and some of it is bullshit. In every intense cooperation, there will be tensions. Sometimes they lead to misunderstandings, fights, break ups… What’s new… Check out Prince, Anouk, Eric Clapton, Gary Moore, John Lord, Led Zeppelin, Uriah Heep, Ritchie Blackmore, Michael Jackson, Pink Floyd… Bumpy careers, many bandmembers, still their past and current legacy is very notable!
What counts most for me, is that the music of the artist tells the story. And Billy’s music is in general of high quality, very creative, it blows me away many times over the years that I know the guy and his band(s). Most songs I like, some I don’t (while others still like the songs that I don’t like so much), so fandom comes in many ways, I guess!
* Chamberlin is sober now, but Corgan is convinced that his charater hasn’t changed, that he is fundamentally \"unhealthy.\" \"Jimmy is a destructive human being, and people who are destructive break things,\" Corgan says. … After Corgan told Chamberlin he was out, the drummer \"unloaded\" on Corgan, unleashing 20 years worth of pent-up insults, \"So I was like, ‘Fuck you,’\" Corgan recalls. \"’Go ride around in a white van for the rest of your life.’\"
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I suppose all this is a necessary evil over time, nothing worthwhile in life seems to run smoothly forever.
I’ve always felt indifferent to what people say about Corgan and the band, or Corgan without them.
A lot of people are quite upset over the recent Interview, Fans have invested a lot of time, emotion and sometimes money into their following SP.
One of the reasons I’ve never really said much is; because I mostly agree in part with everybody!
As an actual band, they’re pretty much over and out now, too much has happened. Billy Corgan, indeed, will probably be an amazing talent until the day he drops. There’s the dud tracks – as with everybody – and also the greats, you can’t be all-out awesome 100% of the time.
Collector-wise I’ve been feeling that the whole process is a bit depressing: Fighting over a CD on eBay lost its appeal a long time ago for me. I’ll probably always dabble from time to time, who can resist that…
So much happened recently that I don’t really know what the future holds… After the American Gothic release I wasn’t following along too much and haven’t since, just the way I felt at the time.
I’m probably not as passionate about it all as I probably could be. Whereas I used to defend Mr Corgan against the jibes and all, now I just accept that people will think what they want.
The one thing I always notice, is how the complaints don’t stop people discussing Corgan and/or Co. In ‘normal’ life we’d say, \"Ah bleep that,\" to something that’s upsetting.
Somehow, no matter what, those bitten by the band seem to stay infected for a very long time.
To self-categorise myself, if I play an album to fall asleep to, it’s usually Gish and I don’t see it changing in future.
I just hope Billy continues to stay healthy and creative and wish everybody else the same.
To play with (stir up) people who go to the point of arrogance, I’ll often bring up James Iha; who I feel has maintained a sensible angle on the whole thing long-term.
As ever, I doubt anybody can top ‘the Siamese Dream days,’ however for all we know something amazing could be just around the corner.
I weep for the past that’s lost now, yet smile for the future still, it’ll always be a great ride while Corgan’s creating and releasing. IMHO.
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Time to start a bonfire and burn all SP stuff. This guy is flat out crazy.
Couldn’t he act much more mature, like his ex-bandmates?
James Iha is a hero grande proportions. He’s got ALL of the dignity left. Hail the man.
All this bullshit about \"Peace, love…ehumum….forgivness, light, God, joy, life\" and then he makes statements about his fellow musicians for the past 20 years?
Billy Corgan should be blushing to the extent that he sheds skin.
May he join a cult movement and being taken away by UFOs to never return on planet earth again.
With the knowledge of BC firing JC and the statement of Jimmy being \"fundamentally unhealthy\" I’m beyond pissed.
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i really think what bugs me most is the fact BC’s going on all about this enlightenment and all and he’s the ego maniac with resentment issues and a bad case of ‘please don’t think i’m the bad guy so you won’t love me anymore’-issues; see If All Goes Wrong…
re-read the remarks he’s made about D’Arcy. And James. And now even JC.
re-read the remarks he’s made about the early years, denouncing Roesing and Mike Potential.
the guy’s got some major delusional issues…without JC TSP would never have been the band it once was and at least not that huge.
in a way the same can be applied to the levelling influence of D’Arcy and the input James brought to the band.
just look for clues when these were fading out of the equasion and hear how the tension in the material faded too.TSP never was: THE BIG BC PARADE; it was a team effort, whether BC played most of the guitars or not on record.
TSP now is: THE BIG BC PARADE…
well, ok dude; make it happen and bring on the good stuff you say you have in droves.but hey; don’t look back and denounce the very people that brought you and helped you gain the fame and cash to work with now.
praise to James and JC for taking the high road and higher ground.it’s just pathetic how it’s all about poor old BC and the mean people he’s been surrounded with. well, boo-hoo dude, YOU could’ve / should’ve walked away… you didn’t and you don’t, cause you cling to the fame and name and money… and to now all of a sudden sell Today to VISA when the TSP-stance on licensing songs, especially Today and Disarm for use in commercials was always very clear and stern… dunno… someone is losing it on a major scale. and don’t get me wrong: that’s a very sad thing to see happen and of course even worse: to hear happen in the musical output too.
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Quote:
\"without JC TSP would never have been the band it once was and at least not that huge. \"
Bingo! You’re darn right on that one! JC was the band’s petrol.
It’s funny to see that BC is STILL after 10 years (!) throwing shit at Darcy and James as when James gets a question on Billy, he just states: \"I’m not on the SP-ship anymore, BC is a talented musician and I wish him the best in his future endeavors\".
Ha, ha. That’s funny and shows right away that BC has the mentality of a 5 year-old spoiled brat.
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And who knows what happened to Lisa, I wonder? And what about Jeff?
And no return of Melissa can be expected, she is too busy with her OOOM project in the near future, I just read in another topic here. She will be playing in Europe, including Amsterdam! Looking forward to that big times!
OK, sorry to derail a little here. I have to say, I’m impressed with the firmness of you guys opinions, and I feel what you mean. I too don’t like it when Billy spits his shit over ex-bandmembers, I also don’t like his religious thingy with the peace and love and it’s website about it, and everything… And at the same time being bitter about some personal things that he should not be bothered about too long. Bringing it in the public is immature, let’s be honest (to myself
)…Still, I see the big Pumpkins picture, I see the Pumpkins legacy, I see the Pumpkins history (the Adore gigs without Jimmy were still awesome, true or not!), I see other bands on the same bumpy road and yet still releasing good shit. I trust Billy to do the same, as usual. His wicked mind will always create stuff that is worthwhile listening to, I’m sure. He promised rocking songs, and he will deliver them, mark my words… And his wicked mind will also create controversy, as usual. Was it ever quiet around this guy? Isn’t that how he sets the mood for being creative? Wasn’t Siamese Dream, the best album ever in my opinion, created when the band was about to break up?
So, the Smashing Pumpkins collecting fever will not disappear on me, I’m afraid… And I do like the Teargarden songs so far, at least 2 of them!
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i was wondering when this article would hit over here. i was debating making a thread for it, but it pissed me off and disappointed me and i didn’t want to spread the crap.
my opinions are definitely more with Sven on this one. i’m pretty much an official nostalgia fan now. i will still pay attention to things Corgan and download the new stuff when and if it arrives, but as a fan my heart is with the old SP, not the here and now. its hard to get behind what he is doing with all the bitterness. and his comments about Jimmy and his inability to move beyond the past bothers me. he just seems like this sad guy who is slowly self destructing and killing his bands legacy as he goes.
there isn’t much i can add to what Sven has said. i agree that the music is sub par and passionless and i too think the marketing scheme for this \"project\" is sketchy at best. and i honestly don’t see the whole project coming to fruition either. most of his projects post-Zeitgeist haven’t. everything has just been a series of delays and ideas fizzling out and disappearing.
as for the rest- i understand Ginger leaving. she has a family now. and i admit i’m not big on Mike because no one can replace Jimmy, but i suppose its not fair to judge the musicians around when the music Corgan is making for them to play so lacks the fire and emotion of his previous work. for me, although i have been critical in the past over tour musicians, its probably ultimately less about the musicians behind it and more the lack of passion with the material itself. i can’t help but feel that on some level all of that unhealthy, bitter sentiment behind everything anymore must contribute to making his more current releases seem as dead as they do to me. the negativity and frustration i would think must stifle his creativity and ability to express himself in that more honest, emotional way he use to with his music. i know for me personally when it comes to art (visual in my case) being burnt out or negative about things does that for me. it can cut you off and make it difficult to tap in to that more creative energy if you will. in fact i have been in the rut for several semesters.
i don’t know. that’s just some of how i feel. and that is just an idea i have been kicking around for why his music now seems so lacking to me- lack of JC and other band mates aside. i don’t think its coming from an honest, unstifled place with its creator just seemingly sitting around wallowing in all the bitterness and negativity of the past and the present. i really hope Corgan can get out of that and i really hope he proves me wrong and finds that old creative spark. he is a talented musician and i know that he is capable of great things if he would just truly cast all this crap aside.
but anyway, i’m still here, just disappointed with the current state of things.
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I do like the new stuff, it’s way better than Zeitgeist, even though Zeitgeist wasn’t bad at all.
Certainly, I appreciate the band releasing the songs for free, I think that is really awesome.The problem is that Billy sometimes doesn’t realize how stupid statements he can make. I think he just can’t stand the fact that he has lost tons of fans and he is nowhere near as popular as he was back then.
I hate the fact that he keeps stabbing in the back at James and now Jimmy. That is really immature thing to do and at the end of the day he will be losing more and more fans as long as he does this.
James is an awesome guy who doesn’t deserve this.Now, personally I think Billy shouldn’t continue to make music under TSP name because there is no point in doing so when there is only one original member left. I don’t know how James, Jimmy and D’arcy allow him to do so… he is only ruining their legacy.
I think their (1988-2000) legacy is almost sacred and it pisses me off that they keep ruining it.
As far as me as a fan, I will continue to collect stuff (no I will not buy anything on the Teargarden project), eventhough I’m looking forward for the new songs.
My interest for the early history is still there, and I will continue doing research and contacting people.
I am one step away from getting the Garbo tape, which I plan to get sometime in the following months and hopefully Frank Quinto will release some stuff from the archives. -
that was a great read. it’s nice to see this very sensitive subject discussed maturely. it’s refreshing to see after what i’ve read on the sp board. you guys all have very valid points.
my take:
billy deeply regrets breaking up the band. it was his life. his identity. his purpose in life. he decided he wanted to attempt to get that back. he got it back. (for the most part) and as we can see he’s willing to do whatever it takes to keep this going. he seems to be taking things day by day. he’s willing to have a rotating lineup. he’s got plenty of music to release. and figured out a way to do it. and probably is having fun in the studio. and again, just taking it day by day. ginger wants to move on? fair enough. he’s got mark tulin who can step for the interm. he’ll hold some auditions and find a competent person. (but good luck finding someone cuter than ginger) i like the music. some don’t. to each is own. -
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i’ve just been getting into other bands more and put SP on the backburner for now.[/quote:1jd921q2]
Oh yeah, very understandable. Happened to me many times in 1997, 1999, 2001-2003, 2005, basically every now and then between Smashing Pumpkins releases and when I cannot be that obsessed anymore for 1 band only. It’s good to discover there are many many other good bands out there! -
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