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i didn’t think it was that big of a deal, and i’m surprised NME and Pitchfork are on this. do they even care?
i can understand the band will try and find who’s responsible for this, but this is, in my opinion, something that is best taken care of in private.[/quote:aa5qr3hw]
well, i’m not saying there going to go live with this, but they said to me they were checking it out.
it’s not a big deal, but on a slow news day, it can be a nice little ‘filler’ article…imagine the ‘finger’ M.I.A. gave the audience at the Superbowl halftime performance or ‘nipplegate’ ft. Miss Jackson. this is not something some people tend to take lightly…
also, as the editor in chief of NME told me: it’s no longer a private matter once you have the records in your hands and those are out there… so…
I’d be interested to know if these sorts of codes appear on any other vinyls, or was this just someone’s joke (anti-SP) to put it on those particular ones? Maybe someone is putting these messages on all different kinds of releases?[/quote:2v9zndwn]
matrix / run off groove messages are to be found on a massive amount of vinyls.
it’s not something radically new or special, but to find these kind of remarks on TSP vinyl for SD is something that doesn’t seem to compute or make any sense.
that’s why Bram and I would love to know how and why this got to be.i don’t know what you want us (SPfreaks) to do? we have this forum, we’ve discussed the entry, and i’ve stated it will be entered into the database. should we dwell on it? what’s left to say? the rest, right now, is pure speculation, we have to wait for the facts to come out…[/quote:1u37fs3k]
that’s why you need to get this out in the open.
either per Twitter or me mailing the guys at the pressing / mastering plant and Monte and the management.
and the media.it’s not about dwelling on a topic.
it’s about trying to find out what happened, when, where and why or how?!the facts won’t come out of thin air if there’s no mention of this to the band or anything.
now, it’s about getting the history straight and put together.
the factual matter is correct; these are the matrix codes in our copies. these are the messages.
next stage: please explain…Let Billy bring it out himself, and tell us what his actions are going to be. If he wants to bring it out, that is.[/quote:131k1ipu]
he won’t.
and he doesn’t have to inform anyone. it’s none of our business.
i do wonder about this, but i don’t think it’d be right.[/quote:131k1ipu]he won’t unless he’s notified and it gets some attention online or in the press.
this is a somewhat big deal for such a massive release to be ‘fucked’ with in this way.
there might be a band-answer as Crestfallen will check with BC.
Second that, manillascissor. I gave it a thought also, because of course it is somewhat big news. It might lead to someone being fired at the vinyl plant, when Billy, the band or their management/staff really jump on it. It’s a really dirty spot on a world famous release, and it’s not a very funny message also. When the "joker" had put a hidden message like "this is the best album ever bla bla bla" then it would have been kinda cool, and it would have brought a big smile to everybody’s face.
When we jump on the bandwagon right now, and bring the news frontpage, it is not for the benefit of SPfreaks.com in the long term. At this moment we will then be the messenger, and who got always shot again? Think about that…
So I’m happy a Twitter moderator with a good feeling for short and long term interests for us SPfreaks and the SP community as a whole, deleted the Twitter message at this moment. Let Billy bring it out himself, and tell us what his actions are going to be. If he wants to bring it out, that is. He knows about it, and he was not amused, and I can understand that very well. Nuff said for the moment, I guess. It remains a cool find anyway, thanks to CAIC!
[/quote:2b9124d3]Wrong reasoning altogether as per journalism or publishing details.
It’s NOT a bad or negative thing per se.
I’ve got a very strange and wrong feeling about the dealing(s) with this post and everything surrounding it and the arguments posted in favor of the censoring.
I hope someone in the media picks it up as apparently SPFreaks is too afraid to do it.
But exactly SPFreaks SHOULD be the party to do it and mention this.
If not us, then who?i’m not saying we should start bitching and moaning or anything. but i don’t like the sound of this "positive sp" thing. it’s too restrictive. where did that all of a sudden come from? i know the forum has to stay clean. no trolling. that’s clear. but this "positive" thing is new to me. and i don’t like it very much. what is this? the new crestfallen.com?
note that this is just a bit of a question/remark on the side.
this isn’t about these matrix code messages and whether to make a lot of noise about them. i can understand why one would choose not to. if you look at it as rude graffiti, it makes sense. by putting it on twitter, you’re helping the vandal, not the victim.[/quote:29bq0sw7]agreed Bram; I don’t like it one bit either…
i think spfreaks should be mainly about collecting and all related freaky things, and not so much about being positive. there are enough websites around already that have made that their main selling point.
i consider this matrix code message as a funny little fact. i don’t see what’s so wrong or negative about it. it’s there. well, ok, the message itself is negative, but reporting about it doesn’t have to be.
(i can imagine it was put there by someone who doesn’t like the smashing pumpkins. that could explain it. like a sort of sneaky graffiti. from that point of view, it is negative. and it’s immature, no matter what the reason behind it is.)discovering a secret message in a matrix code is big spfreaks news to me. and in my opinion, more important than being a "positive sp site", whatever that is supposed to mean.
and i don’t even think reporting about this would make spfreaks.com a negative sp site. i don’t see how it would make a difference, really.i’m not saying it should be on twitter necessarily. i don’t really care about that. but i do find it a bit weird that it was suddenly removed.
i find these hidden messages quite weird, and all i want is to find out a bit more about it. where did it come from, mainly.that’s just my thoughts on this. it’s not my website, it’s not my twitter account. so carry on.[/quote:imhfbx85]
totally agreed Bram.
don’t censor a post or whatever just to remain ‘positive’…
the business of a collector’s site is not the be ‘positive’ per se, but to report factual matters we’ve found out (first).Thanks for the support freaks! We have big things for spfreaks around the corner. With that being said we will be a positive sp site
[/quote:30ffjte4]of course, but there’s NOTHING negative about decoding these messages in the matrix codes.
i mean: we do post song titles like Fuck You (An Ode to No One)… come on…!plus:
why remain positive? JC was a junky in a major part of the TSP years. D’Arcy had her share too.
why not mention this in the history parts? it’s an integral part of the band’s history for example.shit happens, sometimes good, sometimes bad, but the music remains.
i agree with geo and arthur that we should not "advertise" this on twitter. i have pretty much removed myself from twitter. i don’t understand it and don’t have time to put towards it.
however, i do still have to uphold what i am responsible for, and that is uploading these two vinyl releases to the MyColletion portion of SPfreaks.
i will obviously not be putting the vulgarity into the description, but the matrix codes are what they are, and will be represented here as such.
big ups to bram for noticing these kinds of things. he sent me the codes awhile back and i was like, hmm, yeah, odd codes…..[/quote:15p9q3k1]
crestfallen won’t post about this, but will check with BC.
A&R – the master cutter / pressing plant refrains from comments.i think it’s BS to remain ‘positive’ per se. this is not ‘negative’ and even if the marks / remarks were really way more offending we SHOULD mention this as we mention all and everything just as plain factual issues.
NME.com and Pitchfork are on the matter as we speak and checking with management and mastering / pressing plant.
this is not a matter of immaturity, this a matter of a very high profile release with these kinds of profanities and that is a matter you can and should discuss in the music world and especially in the collector’s world.
i also wonder what BC will think of this when he hears about it, assuming that he doesn’t know about these messages yet.
and i agree. the messages are very immature.[/quote:2ajrex3t]Agreed, totally.
I just can not see BC Ok these things.
Either: these remarks were not there yet on his test pressing.
Or: he didn’t notice these remarks in the matrix.
But: I can not imagine BC giving an OK to such immature, rather prank-like and stupid remarks in the run-off matrix groove of the major record re-issue release…I’m doing my best, amongst loads and tons and tons of work and writing and meetings to try to find out what happend. The Dutch part of EMI just declined to remark and went into looking for an answer.
and hope someone can leave a tweet on this matter as per BC’s notice and hopefully we’ll hear from them…
[/quote:10q6bqdv]
Don’t worry, it’s out there.
http://twitter.com/spfreaks[/quote:10q6bqdv]
No worries whatsoever and thanks!
i don’t think so as these are not very TSP-like messages.[/quote:psfbkdl1]
well, i thought so too, while i was decoding them, but then i decoded "we love you", and that’s a very pumpkins-like message. they even had a song called , played live mainly during the resume the pose tour. so who knows? (they also have a song called "fuck you".)anyway, i don’t think BC is behind this at all.
but that "we love you" is really out of place there. it doesn’t make sense when you put it next to the other messages.[/quote:psfbkdl1]agreed…
this is not what I expected from TSP AT ALL.
this is not to say I’m personally offended, which I am not, but: it’s just a matter of rather bad taste to connect these messages with this amazing record, that’s all…therefore I’ve contacted Crestfallen and hope someone can leave a tweet on this matter as per BC’s notice and hopefully we’ll hear from them…
anyone with a twitter account care to make a post on the rather curious etchings in the matrix code?[/quote:3epk0au6]
Geo?[/quote:3epk0au6]i mean: i’m just curious if BC might comment on this matter because this is SO unlike anything I know of as per TSP… these are so far off remarks… i’ve seen some cool run off groove / matrix code remarks before by some bands that are quite funny but this is just a little bit like… uhm, duh, dude, wtf?!
most likely this was done by the mastering person a friend of mine told me and he’s in the business of cutting vinyls.
can easily have been overlooked by the band / BC at the test pressing stage(s).
(anyone already have a test pressing of this re-issue???)i’ve forwarded this issue to Cresfallen.com as the people are in touch with BC.
anyone with a twitter account care to make a post on the rather curious etchings in the matrix code?
thanks for checking, sven.
do you think billy knows about these?
who would be able to add these codes to the matrix code? does it have to be someone at the record plant? the person who mastered the record for vinyl?i don’t think they serve any purpose. if they leave these numbers out, the matrix code would still contain enough information to do what it’s supposed to do.[/quote:2zro1vtc]
you’re welcome.
i don’t think so as these are not very TSP-like messages.
messages in the matrix code are known and usually these are done on purpose.
i think to know these are made when the master is cut first (the mother) by the mastering engineer i.e. the person who cuts the first vinyl, not the mastering engineer as per the final master mix per se.
but there might be a chance too these codes are stamped following the test pressing stage when the release codes are known and this might be done by the people making the final pressing plates for production.negative, i know for a fact as i checked it by asking BC, these were from the master recordings.
when they did release some of the songs on the Greatest Hits album, these were of course from the masters and not from the vinyl source.[/quote:d2b97fw8]
i’ve always wondered about this: do we know this for certain? or is there a chance that the machina II tracks that were released on cd elsewhere are actually sourced from the vinyl set (and the virgin promo rip in specific)?[/quote:d2b97fw8]and, yes Bram, i can still not figure out why these were made…
i don’t think Virgin would ever go around to release the full set, plus: when they did release some of the songs on the Greatest Hits album, these were of course from the masters and not from the vinyl source.
granted, at the time these promos were made, they thus, we may infer?, didn’t have any access to the masters.
well, for BC and TSP that’s standard procedure. some bands pass over the masters (famous example is NIN), some are clever enough only to pass the copyright for specific releases and retain the master recording.
but, you have a fall out with one of your artists, he gives away a full record plus ep’s, the webmasters recieves a copy, you have his rip for the band site and then you go about burning the discs and resizing the artwork and all? why? well, i thought, maybe as with the German Virgin promo cdr gift, this was done as an end of year gift of some kind? and if only ten exist or something, maybe only for those at Virgin who actively had dealt with TSP?
do we know how to track down tigershorty? he might be the best source on this matter, right?also: then why are there way more UK sets, with no artwork, but no Delabel promo from France?
I think to remember JC has a set. MADM didn’t, she had a hand written CDR copy, like the German Virgin promo.
I would not be too surprised if some people on the vinyl list got a set.couldn’t these have been something like a representational / promotional gift to people in Vrigin and/or around or in the band?
let’s keep it at ten full sets for now from what we can confirm, more or less and maybe new copies do pop up and then the number can duly be corrected. or, even better: maybe we can track down a source at Virgin with the correct story and information?there are way more sets, just imagine the band member Virgin reps, producers, mixers et al. I would think there are at least 25(+) copies of the full set.[/quote:1wc5yuxq]
Maybe, but only 7 or 8 full sets can be compiled from all the current owners, including the owners that have incomplete sets. I even wonder if all bandmembers got a set (Billy most probably yes, but others no). So I’m going with Shawn when he states:So there is some info. I am sure someone else could help you out, but I am pretty certain that no more than 5-10 sets were made. Because the theory was this:
Vinyl made first….CD-Rs made from vinyl to show Virgin Executives to release….Virgin declines….Sets get out.[/quote:1wc5yuxq][/quote:1wc5yuxq]
Updated ownerslist. Based on the CR01 copies around that are confirmed, there are 6 sets at least. I’m still puzzled if 1 of the sets from Aspecialkid, O’Doyle rules and Mike Roche ended up in the hands of Bram and/or me.
Complete sets
Arthur: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04 (via Virgin representative -> Shawn)
Bram: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04 (via eBay -> Derek)
Aspecialkid: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
O’Doyle rules: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
Mike Roche: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04Incomplete sets
Bram: CR01 CR02 CR03 (CR01 via eBay, CR02 & CR03 via eBay -> Ayoe)
Eazye121: CR01 CR03
Store -> Recast As Child: CR03 CR04
Ayoe: CR01 (via eBay)
Shawn: CR01 or CR02 (via eBay)
Billy Corgan: CR04*
Kittykat1979: CR0?
Smashing Turnip: CR0?*: I assume the copy on MySpace was Billy’s copy. If I remember it correctly, it was just a picture, without a comment whatsoever, so there’s still a small possibility that this is the picture of someone else’s cd. (quote Bram)[/quote:1qbgvnge]
if these full set are confirmed…
there are way more sets, just imagine the band member Virgin reps, producers, mixers et al.
I would think there are at least 25(+) copies of the full set.sure it can and noise pollution is terrible; there’s been some destruction of buildings going on here nearby and it just drains the energy to hear the constant noise from the works…
plus: basically a great amp delivers great output at low volumes too…
very nice ones Thom, unfortunately i don’t have any room anymore to hang these or to store them, but there are some real gems there…
then again, what did BC write in the liner notes for PI? i’m too lazy to look it up exactly but if memory serves me a little bit right, he was talking about his \"jaded little ears\"… well, maybe it’s just these pummelled eardrums of mine from too much concert going and festival PA’s… don’t know… when playing the new SD this week, the neighbours started to complain, so there might a point in case of the sound pressure levels I listen music at nowadays… oops…
still I think I can hear differences and especially the re-issue vinyl sounds like a massive monster…
at least: on my Technics SL1200-MKII hooked onto a Dual amp. and KEF speakers… with the volume dial at around ‘eight o’clock’ it’s already way too loud and things start moving and trembling here at home
imagine; it’s still a shame, but I cannot have other system here at home in Amsterdam where i live now as that was even worse. the beast powered so heavy and the enormous columns (5 way Magnet speakers) were rather prone to very flat response and clear bass waves so err, that would not work down here… it’s on loan now to a friend in Utrecht and in use as his sutdio set-up, but damn: I want the ‘beast’ back up and running as a total system with the amazing cd-players, pre-amp and end-amp
oh well, will have to do with this now which is rather very very good too btw, so no worries; at least, I guess the neighbours do worry
