This topic contains 82 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  mickyshambles 2 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #1417

    Arthur

    I’d like to get a bit of an idea how many of these sets are around. All I’ve heard before is less than 10. Now I wonder how many people on here own one or more of these cds.
    Note that I’m talking about the US cd sets, not the UK ones.

    Please post here if you do, and let us know if you own the full set, or if not, what cds you own. Thank you for your cooperation.

    For your information, here are the four cds of the set.

    CR-01 (slow dawn, vanity, saturnine, glass’ theme)
    [/url:ke8rgero”>

    CR-02 (soul power, cash car star, lucky 13, speed kills)
    [/url:ke8rgero”>

    CR-03 (if there is a god, try try try, heavy metal machine)
    [/url:ke8rgero”>

    CR-04 (glass’ theme, cash car star, dross, real love, go, let me give the world to you, innocence, home, blue skies bring tears, white spyder, in my body, if there is a god, le deux machina, here’s to the atom bomb)
    [/url:ke8rgero”>

  • #41448

    I own CR-01, and that’s it.

  • #41449

    EAZYE121
    Spectator

    I own:
    CR-01
    CR-03

  • #41450

    mirrorboxer
    Spectator

    First off I don’t own any of these cd’s. I am curious what the sound difference is like from these compared to the vinyl rips that everyone else (including myself) has.

  • #41451

    First off I don’t own any of these cd’s. I am curious what the sound difference is like from these compared to the vinyl rips that everyone else (including myself) has.[/quote:1e4xk14s]
    this is how they sound like: http://www.archive.org/details/machina.II.ver.Virgin
    you probably already have this version.

  • #41452

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Then, let me be the first one to report I have all 4 of them, the full set, so to say. 8)

  • #41453

    mirrorboxer
    Spectator

    you probably already have this version.[/quote:1e4hhnp8]

    Yes I do. I didn’t know if these were any different. Thanks for the info.

  • #41454

    amnesia
    Spectator

    I own CR-01 CR-02 CR-03

  • #41455

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    Full set reporting for duty.

  • #41456

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Already 5 CR-01 counted here… cool! But only 2 CR-04? uncool! Funny that these sets became separated in the end…? Or was CR-04 pressed in an even more limited quantity? :?

  • #41457

    billy corgan owns a copy of CR-04.

    i can’t find the picture right now, but i believe he posted it on myspace, and it was of a cat in a shoebox, and next to it, there was a copy of CR-04.

  • #41458

    Already 5 CR-01 counted here… cool! But only 2 CR-04? uncool! Funny that these sets became separated in the end…? Or was CR-04 pressed in an even more limited quantity? :?[/quote:2a2rjzn5]
    Right now, I’m leaning more towards the theory that a certain amount of cd sets were made and then got split up. (Or, that there are an equal amount of copies of each cd.)

    I also wonder how/why the sets were split up.

  • #41459

    billy corgan owns a copy of CR-04.

    i can’t find the picture right now, but i believe he posted it on myspace, and it was of a cat in a shoebox, and next to it, there was a copy of CR-04.[/quote:3r6yoslk]
    i found the myspace picture!
    the cat doesn’t seem to be in a shoebox, but at least it’s a box of some kind.

  • #41460

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Right now, I’m leaning more towards the theory that a certain amount of cd sets were made and then got split up. (Or, that there are an equal amount of copies of each cd.)

    I also wonder how/why the sets were split up.[/quote:3dv17o8d]
    Agree, same thoughts here. Shawn (the one and only), who sold me his set several years ago, at that moment thought (or knew for sure maybe?) that there were only 7 sets. If memory serves me well, this is what he told me. Shawn?

    On a derailing sidenote, I wished Billy Corgan became a member here on SPfreaks.com, to set up his personal "My Collection". Then he would notice what we miss in our online archives, so he would immediately start sending in the scans/pics of the missing items… Keep on dreaming! :lol:

  • #41461

    i remember shawn selling his set. i couldn’t buy it at that time. a year or so later, i asked if he still had the set, and also offered him a nice amount of money for it. he said it was a good offer, but that he already sold the set to someone else in the mean time, for less. THAT WAS YOU, ARTHUR! NEVA 4GET! i was too late. i don’t think i’ll ever own the complete set now.

  • #41462

    pumpkinfan
    Spectator

    I am curious as to how everyone posting here obtained those CDs. I’m sure there are some great stories. Anyone care to share?

  • #41463

    I got my copy of CR-01 on eBay. If I remember it correctly, I asked the seller if he owned any other cds from the set, but he didn’t.

    Arthur bought his set from Shawn (collectspumpkins).

  • #41464

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Arthur bought his set from Shawn (collectspumpkins).[/quote:3mpjmjnw]
    Correct, and I paid him what he asked for at that moment (300 bucks, 75 per cd, if I’m right). I don’t remember any bargaining beforehand. It was no big story. He was selling, I was buying. I paid, he send, I received. It came with a few more rare cds by the way, for example Ava Adore (Live at Letterman) Virgin inhouse promo.

  • #41465

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    Yeah I paid double what Arthur did for mine. eBay. Not a real interesting story, but the set was intact, that’s the main reason it went for so much.

  • #41466

    Anonymous
    Spectator

    There’s also a silver discs Boot version. I myself didn’t see many of those around, I’m guessing they’d not have sold too well; or produced many copies (?):

  • #41467

    Sven
    Spectator

    There’s also a silver discs Boot version. I myself didn’t see many of those around, I’m guessing they’d not have sold too well; or produced many copies (?):

    [/quote:gvat8i2d]

    that’s a funny thing…

    the 2CD set was made by the guys from the Dutch TSP fanclub / newsletter NSPN…
    Jeroen, Vincent, Anne and me were involved.
    You can see our initials at the back :)
    Jeroen did the editting and the artwork.
    We used the Q101 version to produce this for the people of the fanclub / newsletter and put it up for download for free of course only.
    Some bootlegger got a hold of the artwork and decided to make this into a bootleg release to be sold.
    Nothing even changed in the artwork only that we had made a black one for the album and a white one for the three EPs, hence the CR numbers on the back liner; the album one only had one CR code of course :)

  • #41468

    Anonymous
    Spectator

    :) 8) A great story for sure, Sven.

  • #41469

    it is a great story. but it’s also sad that someone bootlegged your fanclub version.

  • #41470

    So, so far, this is the list:
    [code:1gv6e8d1]arthur: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    manilla: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    amnesia: CR01 CR02 CR03
    eazye: CR01 CR03
    cool: CR01
    billy c: ? ? ? CR04*[/code:1gv6e8d1]

    *: I assume the copy on MySpace was Billy’s copy. If I remember it correctly, it was just a picture, without a comment whatsoever, so there’s still a small possibility that this is the picture of someone else’s cd.

    Any other cd owners reading this? If so, please come forward.

  • #41471

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    i have a small bit to add as to why i think the sets got split up:

    CR-04 is the CD with the most tracks, so it would make sense (if you were a casual fan, like some of the people who worked for Virgin at the time) to let go the EPs – maybe make some money, but keep CR-04 for yourself if you actually enjoyed the music. kinda like fishing…keep the big fish and throw back the little ones. does that makes sense?

  • #41472

    i think the list makes it clear that billy has got your CR-04, amnesia. you should demand it back!

  • #41473

    amnesia
    Spectator

    i think the list makes it clear that billy has got your CR-04, amnesia. you should demand it back![/quote:1xmfj7ia]

    Yeah i know.I forgot to take it with me home last time i visited Billy.Ill pick it up next time im goin there.

  • #41474

    so no other sp freaks own any cds from this set?

    what if there are really only 7 sets ever made? in that case we collected almost every existing CR-01!
    i don’t think this is the case, but just imagine that it is. that would be quite incredible.

  • #41475

    Arthur
    Spectator

    I wished Shawn could update us. Shawn?

  • #41476

    Collectspumpkins
    Spectator

    I am going off my memory here and granted, some of the details could be fuzzy. I will try to back them up with facts as best I can. Searching the Netphoria archives hasn’t been as fruitful as I had hoped (plus the site tries to download malware it seems every 30 minutes).

    Anyhoo….the details that I recall were this.

    I bought CR-01 or CR-02 on Ebay when *everyone* thought for sure it was a bootleg and the EP came out of nowhere. After buying it I posted scans of it and then tried to figure out a way to see if there were others out there. I am pretty sure that I got a complete set from someone at Virgin in LA off Ebay.

    Considering this was in the 2000/2001 timeframe, you can see why this is all somewhat sketchy.

    http://forums.netphoria.org/trading-pos … -flac.html

    In the above thread, you will see that ASPECIALKID on Netphoria (PM BOX FULL awww) had a full set (hint hint), as well as myself and what Aspecialkid described as \"some Irish sounding guy who posts on the board\" which was O’DOYLE RULES (hint hint)\". Later in that thread it is mentioned that Mike Roche (who I have e-mailed tonight to see if he still has his set) had a set too, supposedly he sold it soon after getting it….

    KittyKat1979 said that she had 1 of the CR-OX CDs…HINT HINT
    Smashing Turnip said he had 1 of the CR-0X CDs…HINT HINT

    Then in this thread:
    http://forums.netphoria.org/trading-pos … irgin.html

    Recast as Child said he found CR-03 and CR-04 at a store…HINT HINT

    As for source info: From ASpecialKid:

    a long, long, time ago, in a place, far, far away.
    billy was still with virgin and was going to release machina 2 in CD form. virgin made a couple \"in house promos\" from tigerghortys \"sp.com webmasters\" machina 2 vinyl.
    the top people along with billy were trying to figure out ways to market/release the 4 CD set. it gets a little fuzzy here but billy wanted to release like half of it, and give the second half away for free. virgin, thinking of money said something like we dont even know if we can sell it, why would we give part of it away for free? i guess durring this time was the fallout between virgin and SP.
    so in a nutshell BC says fuck it, and just gives it away for free at his website.

    So there is some info. I am sure someone else could help you out, but I am pretty certain that no more than 5-10 sets were made. Because the theory was this:

    Vinyl made first….CD-Rs made from vinyl to show Virgin Executives to release….Virgin declines….Sets get out.

    Hope that helps somewhat…..

  • #41477

    i’m afraid i don’t really get all the HINT HINT HINTs. :(

  • #41478

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Thanks Shawn, for the update. Most appreciated!

    I think he updates the (ex-)ownerlist with the hints?

  • #41479

    also, what i never really understood is the story of machina II.

    the first story i heard is that billy wanted to release machina II, but then, when things didn’t work out with virgin, he pressed 25 copies on vinyl, and sent them out with the message to share it.

    now, according to the story that explains where these virgin in-house promo sets come from, the vinyl came first. (see one of those archive netphoria threads.) and before anything else, the vinyl was sent out. because then the virgin in-house promo sets were made, sourced from tigershorty’s copy (so he must already have received his copy). the sets were made at a time they were discussing if and how to release machina II. and it’s only when things didn’t work out with virgin that billy told people to share it.

    so, is that what happened? did everyone first receive their copy, and only got the message to share it weeks or months later?
    or did he give one copy out, to tigershorty (for whatever reason), and only sent the other ones out after the virgin debacle, with the message to share it?

    does anyone have any links to messages from those days. when did the world find out about machina II? was the audio shared at the same time? any chance any of the sharers mentioned at that time when their vinyl set arrived? (did they have it for weeks, or did it arrive that day?)

    i’m sure there’s a good explanation, but right now, the stories don’t really match for me.
    if there would be an obvious explanation why tigershorty got his copy of machina II long before anyone else, then i guess the stories do match. is there a good explanation? who is he? wasn’t he in charge of the official website?

  • #41480

    Sven
    Spectator

    also, what i never really understood is the story of machina II.

    the first story i heard is that billy wanted to release machina II, but then, when things didn’t work out with virgin, he pressed 25 copies on vinyl, and sent them out with the message to share it.

    now, according to the story that explains where these virgin in-house promo sets come from, the vinyl came first. (see one of those archive netphoria threads.) and before anything else, the vinyl was sent out. because then the virgin in-house promo sets were made, sourced from tigershorty’s copy (so he must already have received his copy). the sets were made at a time they were discussing if and how to release machina II. and it’s only when things didn’t work out with virgin that billy told people to share it.

    so, is that what happened? did everyone first receive their copy, and only got the message to share it weeks or months later?
    or did he give one copy out, to tigershorty (for whatever reason), and only sent the other ones out after the virgin debacle, with the message to share it?

    does anyone have any links to messages from those days. when did the world find out about machina II? was the audio shared at the same time? any chance any of the sharers mentioned at that time when their vinyl set arrived? (did they have it for weeks, or did it arrive that day?)

    i’m sure there’s a good explanation, but right now, the stories don’t really match for me.
    if there would be an obvious explanation why tigershorty got his copy of machina II long before anyone else, then i guess the stories do match. is there a good explanation? who is he? wasn’t he in charge of the official website?[/quote:pye1m8yt]

    M2 was discussed for release by Virgin. Virgin declined, BC sais fuck you and had 25 copies cut and distributed with the message to spread the music asap on the web. this was a preplanned ction as he had leaked analogue source material prior working towards this release to test if it would work.

    when the vinyl was FedExed to the fans they immediately posted about it and the tracks followed very soon after.

    tigershorty got his copy together with everyone else. all copies were cut in one weekend by a friend of BC. the fan copies were all sent out in one go. not all copies were distributed though at the same moment, some people got theirs later and BC still has some copies left. if i recall correctly tigershorty even got his copy a little after the fans got theirs.

    tigershorty made a rip for the TSP.com site. this was quite some time after the Eric Agnew rip was spread widely. i seem to remember this was before the Q101 rip though. his rip was also used for the in-house promos. these were made at a much later moment. BC surely didn’t have his copy of this in-house promo during the final European tour. he had copies burned for the band by a fan while on tour for Melissa to listen to as they were playing songs from M2 and planning on including more in the sets.

    my German M2 promo was made for Christmas 2000. my guess is these in-house Virgin promos were either made while the band was on tour or for the end of the year as a gift to some hot-shots.

  • #41481

    but that is just a guess.

    it doesn’t match with what aspecialkid said on netphoria: http://forums.netphoria.org/trading-pos … -flac.html

    a long, long, time ago, in a place, far, far away.
    billy was still with virgin and was going to release machina 2 in CD form. virgin made a couple "in house promos" from tigerghortys "sp.com webmasters" machina 2 vinyl.
    the top people along with billy were trying to figure out ways to market/release the 4 CD set. it gets a little fuzzy here but billy wanted to release like half of it, and give the second half away for free. virgin, thinking of money said something like we dont even know if we can sell it, why would we give part of it away for free? i guess durring this time was the fallout between virgin and SP.
    so in a nutshell BC says fuck it, and just gives it away for free at his website. [/quote:lw8k5vcz]

    So you’re saying the Machina II vinyls were made, given away and even converted to in-house promos before Billy decided to give it away?

    I’m confused. I always thought Billy decided to make vinyls and to give them away after Virgin refused to release Machina II.[/quote:lw8k5vcz]

    you are correct. the vinyls were pressed, virgin used tigershortys copy to make a promo to try to figure out how to release this long album. at first machina 2 was going to be sold and not givin away. then billy had a fallout with virgin, and said fuck it and gave it away for free.[/quote:lw8k5vcz]

    so who’s right?

    i don’t think we have to deduct anything from the fact that the band were handing out that "german" promo on tour. it doesn’t mean they had or didn’t have the virgin in-house promo yet.

  • #41482

    Sven
    Spectator

    i think he got the chronology wrong.

    before MACHINA was released, Virgin had scrapped the idea of a second MACHINA record. i believe that BC went back to Virgin at a later moment to again discuss the release idea for M2, but Virgin indeed wouldn’t have it as they didn’t see the potential of the material, plus: they didn’t know how to market M2 and the online free download plans.

    this decision led BC to further his plans to release the music on his own. his initial idea in fact had been to release half online for free and half as a normal release. i believe this applied only to MACHINA vs MACHINA 2, where MACHINA would be the normal release and M2 would be the free record. M2 would remain shelved as Virgin didn’t want to release it in any way, not the album and not the extra recorded tracks which ended up on the EPs.

    when considering BCs MACHINA release plan, there was no talk of a vinyl set or anything, let alone the sleeve design et cetera. maybe Virgin did hear master recordings from the sessions back then. the split into the EPs and the album for M2 was only decided upon when making the vinyl sets.

    these Virgin promos were created after the vinyl sets were cut from one of the 25 copies. the exact moment is unknown, but these were not made in the decision making process for releasing M2 which led to the fallout. just very maybe Virgin did consider a proper release eventually post factum after M2 had been spread following the vinyl release. this doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense as the material was out there and the relation with BC was down the drain.

    the whole idea of the analogue format on vinyl vs the online free distribution was only thought and planned out after the fallout leading up to the release of the 25 sets. this method was even tested in a lowkey way by BC during the USA tour on MACHINA. seeing how this worked, BC decided upon the manufacturing of M2 on vinyl and the spreading through some key fans in the community. this was not part of the initially planned release process for MACHINA and M2.

  • #41483

    Thom
    Spectator

    In the above thread, you will see that ASPECIALKID on Netphoria (PM BOX FULL awww) had a full set [/quote:3g5xjomf]

    He died a few years ago

  • #41484

    thanks for the explanation, sven.

    i still wonder why exactly these in-house promos were made in the end.
    there doesn’t really seem to be a purpose for them. it doesn’t make much sense to make these if they just had a big disagreement about the release of the music.
    maybe you are right, sven, and they were still considering to maybe release it properly after all, despite the earlier disagreement. maybe they disagreed in the us, but europe was interested to release it, and that’s why the promos were made? (a couple in the us, plenty in the uk, sourced from the us cd set.)

    we can guess why, but we have to keep this in mind:
    – billy owns (at least) a copy of cr-04.
    – the virgin cd sets contain the same audio as the mp3s on the old sp.com, transferred from tigershorty’s vinyl copy. (did virgin do the transfer themselves and give sp.com/billy one of the cd sets so they could make the mp3s, or did tigershorty do the transfer and give the audio to virgin to make the cd sets?)

    the whole idea of the analogue format on vinyl vs the online free distribution was only thought and planned out after the fallout leading up to the release of the 25 sets. this method was even tested in a lowkey way by BC during the USA tour on MACHINA.[/quote:17dqnef4]
    what exactly do you mean with "tested in a lowkey way"?
    do you mean the tapes billy gave away with "billy’s gravity demos I" and "friends and enemies of modern music"?

  • #41485

    Sven
    Spectator

    – the virgin cd sets contain the same audio as the mp3s on the old sp.com, transferred from tigershorty’s vinyl copy. (did virgin do the transfer themselves and give sp.com/billy one of the cd sets so they could make the mp3s, or did tigershorty do the transfer and give the audio to virgin to make the cd sets?)
    [/quote:22urajj0]

    tigershorty did the transfer, presumably himself. as far as i know he provided virgin with the cd’s from which these promo’s were sourced.

    the audio on the website was the same transfer done by tigershorty.

    and: yes, i meant the tapes BC gave away in analog format during the S+P tour in the USA to test if analog source material would spread in the fanbase.

  • #41486

    Arthur
    Spectator

    If I read the info above carefully, this is the updated list that Bram created long time ago. I think it’s fair to believe that at least 8 sets have been pressed of this Virgin M2 US promo.

    Virgin representative -> Shawn -> Arthur: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    eBay -> Derek -> Bram: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    Aspecialkid: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    O’Doyle rules: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    Mike Roche: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    eBay -> Ayoe: CR01 CR02 CR03
    Eazye121: CR01 CR03
    Store -> Recast As Child: CR03 CR04
    eBay -> Bram: CR01
    Kittykat1979: CR0?
    Smashing Turnip: CR0?
    eBay -> Shawn: CR01 or CR02
    Billy Corgan: ? ? ? CR04*

    *: I assume the copy on MySpace was Billy’s copy. If I remember it correctly, it was just a picture, without a comment whatsoever, so there’s still a small possibility that this is the picture of someone else’s cd. (quote Bram)

  • #41487

    i also bought ayoe’s cr02 and cr03.

  • #41488

    amnesia
    Spectator

    i also bought ayoe’s cr02 and cr03.[/quote:3k2uke4h]

    You still need the CR04, right?

    I only own the CR01 now.

  • #41489

    You still need the CR04, right?[/quote:jji6oo0z]
    no and yes.
    no, because i got derek’s complete set now. so i’m no longer looking.
    yes, if i want two complete sets. but why would i want that?

  • #41490

    Arthur
    Spectator

    yes, if i want two complete sets. but why would i want that?[/quote:c4s5c0zj]
    Just to prove something, maybe? :lol:

    i don’t think i’ll ever own the complete set now.[/quote:c4s5c0zj]

  • #41491

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Updated ownerslist. Based on the CR01 copies around that are confirmed, there are 6 sets at least. I’m still puzzled if 1 of the sets from Aspecialkid, O’Doyle rules and Mike Roche ended up in the hands of Bram and/or me.

    Complete sets

    Arthur: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04 (via Virgin representative -> Shawn)
    Bram: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04 (via eBay -> Derek)
    Aspecialkid: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    O’Doyle rules: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    Mike Roche: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04

    Incomplete sets

    Bram: CR01 CR02 CR03 (CR01 via eBay, CR02 & CR03 via eBay -> Ayoe)
    Eazye121: CR01 CR03
    Store -> Recast As Child: CR03 CR04
    Ayoe: CR01 (via eBay)
    Shawn: CR01 or CR02 (via eBay)
    Billy Corgan: CR04*
    Kittykat1979: CR0?
    Smashing Turnip: CR0?

    *: I assume the copy on MySpace was Billy’s copy. If I remember it correctly, it was just a picture, without a comment whatsoever, so there’s still a small possibility that this is the picture of someone else’s cd. (quote Bram)

  • #41492

    geofolkers
    Spectator

    i just got the cr-02. anyone want to sell me the others?

  • #41493

    ah, you must be the winner of last week’s ebay auction. i believe cr-02 went for the bargain price of $60 or something in that area. correct?

  • #41494

    Sven
    Spectator

    Updated ownerslist. Based on the CR01 copies around that are confirmed, there are 6 sets at least. I’m still puzzled if 1 of the sets from Aspecialkid, O’Doyle rules and Mike Roche ended up in the hands of Bram and/or me.

    Complete sets

    Arthur: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04 (via Virgin representative -> Shawn)
    Bram: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04 (via eBay -> Derek)
    Aspecialkid: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    O’Doyle rules: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    Mike Roche: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04

    Incomplete sets

    Bram: CR01 CR02 CR03 (CR01 via eBay, CR02 & CR03 via eBay -> Ayoe)
    Eazye121: CR01 CR03
    Store -> Recast As Child: CR03 CR04
    Ayoe: CR01 (via eBay)
    Shawn: CR01 or CR02 (via eBay)
    Billy Corgan: CR04*
    Kittykat1979: CR0?
    Smashing Turnip: CR0?

    *: I assume the copy on MySpace was Billy’s copy. If I remember it correctly, it was just a picture, without a comment whatsoever, so there’s still a small possibility that this is the picture of someone else’s cd. (quote Bram)[/quote:1qbgvnge]

    if these full set are confirmed…
    there are way more sets, just imagine the band member Virgin reps, producers, mixers et al.
    I would think there are at least 25(+) copies of the full set.

  • #41495

    Arthur
    Spectator

    there are way more sets, just imagine the band member Virgin reps, producers, mixers et al. I would think there are at least 25(+) copies of the full set.[/quote:3fkandng]
    Maybe, but only 7 or 8 full sets can be compiled from all the current owners, including the owners that have incomplete sets. I even wonder if all bandmembers got a set (Billy most probably yes, but others no). So I’m going with Shawn when he states:

    So there is some info. I am sure someone else could help you out, but I am pretty certain that no more than 5-10 sets were made. Because the theory was this:

    Vinyl made first….CD-Rs made from vinyl to show Virgin Executives to release….Virgin declines….Sets get out.[/quote:3fkandng]

  • #41496

    geofolkers
    Spectator

    yeah i bought the cr-02 for 61$. A hell of a deal. I dont have all my goods listed on here and im just figuring out the forum part of the site now.

  • #41497

    Sven
    Spectator

    I think to remember JC has a set. MADM didn’t, she had a hand written CDR copy, like the German Virgin promo.
    I would not be too surprised if some people on the vinyl list got a set.

    couldn’t these have been something like a representational / promotional gift to people in Vrigin and/or around or in the band?
    let’s keep it at ten full sets for now from what we can confirm, more or less and maybe new copies do pop up and then the number can duly be corrected. or, even better: maybe we can track down a source at Virgin with the correct story and information? :)

    there are way more sets, just imagine the band member Virgin reps, producers, mixers et al. I would think there are at least 25(+) copies of the full set.[/quote:1wc5yuxq]
    Maybe, but only 7 or 8 full sets can be compiled from all the current owners, including the owners that have incomplete sets. I even wonder if all bandmembers got a set (Billy most probably yes, but others no). So I’m going with Shawn when he states:

    So there is some info. I am sure someone else could help you out, but I am pretty certain that no more than 5-10 sets were made. Because the theory was this:

    Vinyl made first….CD-Rs made from vinyl to show Virgin Executives to release….Virgin declines….Sets get out.[/quote:1wc5yuxq][/quote:1wc5yuxq]

  • #41498

    Sven
    Spectator

    and, yes Bram, i can still not figure out why these were made…
    i don’t think Virgin would ever go around to release the full set, plus: when they did release some of the songs on the Greatest Hits album, these were of course from the masters and not from the vinyl source.
    granted, at the time these promos were made, they thus, we may infer?, didn’t have any access to the masters.
    well, for BC and TSP that’s standard procedure. some bands pass over the masters (famous example is NIN), some are clever enough only to pass the copyright for specific releases and retain the master recording.
    but, you have a fall out with one of your artists, he gives away a full record plus ep’s, the webmasters recieves a copy, you have his rip for the band site and then you go about burning the discs and resizing the artwork and all? why? well, i thought, maybe as with the German Virgin promo cdr gift, this was done as an end of year gift of some kind? and if only ten exist or something, maybe only for those at Virgin who actively had dealt with TSP?
    do we know how to track down tigershorty? he might be the best source on this matter, right?

    also: then why are there way more UK sets, with no artwork, but no Delabel promo from France?

  • #41499

    when they did release some of the songs on the Greatest Hits album, these were of course from the masters and not from the vinyl source.[/quote:2k315xf2]
    i’ve always wondered about this: do we know this for certain? or is there a chance that the machina II tracks that were released on cd elsewhere are actually sourced from the vinyl set (and the virgin promo rip in specific)?

  • #41500

    Sven
    Spectator

    negative, i know for a fact as i checked it by asking BC, these were from the master recordings.

    when they did release some of the songs on the Greatest Hits album, these were of course from the masters and not from the vinyl source.[/quote:d2b97fw8]
    i’ve always wondered about this: do we know this for certain? or is there a chance that the machina II tracks that were released on cd elsewhere are actually sourced from the vinyl set (and the virgin promo rip in specific)?[/quote:d2b97fw8]

  • #41501

    marigold
    Spectator

    I found a copy (as in someone had made a copy) of CR-04 in a small and rather dingy Seattle record store today. The guy serving said just in case its a bootleg I’ll make it $4. I nodded and said it most definitely is!

  • #41502

    I found a copy (as in someone had made a copy) of CR-04 in a small and rather dingy Seattle record store today. The guy serving said just in case its a bootleg I’ll make it $4. I nodded and said it most definitely is![/quote:22ix1fiy]
    omg!!!

  • #41503

    geofolkers
    Spectator

    I’m not trying to spoil the party but I’m not seeing the significance here? Because its a bootleg of cr-04?

  • #41504

    marigold
    Spectator

    I think Bram’s omg!! Is sarcasm ?
    Anyway, I just like the fact that someone went to the effort of making it :)

  • #41505

    please ignore my comments.

    a record store i sometimes visit also has (homemade) machina II cd-rs for sale. one cd is CR04, the other cd contains the three EPs. i don’t know what the source is. the artwork doesn’t try to imitate the virgin promos.

    if i’m not mistaken, they’re asking 12.50 per cd. hahaha!

    how hard did they try to copy the original virgin promo cd? or is it possible they just downloaded (any) mp3s online, together with the black artwork of CR04, without having access to the real thing?

  • #41506

    marigold
    Spectator

    I’ve never seen bootlegs of this in NZ, so it was fun to find!
    It doesn’t seem like they tried too hard, the cover is this:
    http://spfreaks.com/default.aspx?page=I … item=12720
    (and it is a paper insert)
    And the back cover insert looks like they made it up, as I can’t see anything similar in the collection.
    Looks very homemade although they got the CD printed too, extra effort!
    Will scan it when I get back home next week :)

  • #41507

    marigold
    Spectator

  • #41508

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    Complete sets

    Arthur: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04 (via Virgin representative -> Shawn)
    Bram: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04 (via eBay -> Derek)
    Aspecialkid: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    O’Doyle rules: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    Mike Roche: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04
    Geo: CR01 CR02 CR03 CR04 (2 from eBay, 2 from Bram)

    Incomplete sets

    Eazye121: CR01 CR03 (CR04 – CD only)
    Store -> Recast As Child: CR03 CR04
    Ayoe: CR01 (via eBay)
    Shawn: CR01 or CR02 (via eBay)
    Billy Corgan: CR04
    Kittykat1979: CR0?
    Smashing Turnip: CR0?

  • #41509

    EAZYE121
    Spectator

    I now have cr-04, except no artwork ( just CD).

  • #41510

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    I now have cr-04, except no artwork ( just CD).[/quote:2xhjev2m]

    cool, updated. thanks!

  • #41511

    i have no more incomplete sets. (just your complete set.)
    two cds were sold to geo, the other one i sold earlier, but i can’t remember who i sold it to.

  • #41512

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    i guess i should remove you then from the incomplete part? i’ll do that. i didn’t know if arthur wanted to keep that part, but since you don’t own them anymore, i suppose it’s okay.

  • #41513

    geofolkers
    Spectator

    I got CR-02 from eBay
    CR-01 and 03 from Bram
    And CR-04 from a private collector

  • #41514

    geofolkers
    Spectator

    I did get the opportunity to ask BC about the Machina 2 in house promos, last night. I asked, \"why do they exist? And where are they sorced from?\". He said they exist because EMI used them for some sort of marketing. He’s not sure on the source. I asked if they were source from the vinyl he had pressed and he said he couldnt be for sure.
    So not much info here but, a few questions I had wanted to ask for awhile :)

  • #41515

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Yeah, nice to know. Maybe one of our tech guys (sven, bram, jeroen fox) could figure out someday if there are differences between the Q101 release (vinyl sourced) and these Virgin US/Hut UK releases? Or was that done already?

  • #41516

    it’s a different transfer.

    i believe the virgin promos had the same audio as the download version that was available on sp.com and on the metro website, for example.

    if i’m not mistaken, that audio was supposed to be a rip from the copy of the sp.com webmaster (tigershorty?). this is also what sven has told about the origin of the virgin promos.
    but i might be wrong. i don’t really know. i just go by what i’ve read. maybe virgin did the transfer, and then the websites hosted mp3s that were sourced from the virgin promos?

  • #41517

    Sven
    Spectator

    it’s a different transfer.

    i believe the virgin promos had the same audio as the download version that was available on sp.com and on the metro website, for example.

    if i’m not mistaken, that audio was supposed to be a rip from the copy of the sp.com webmaster (tigershorty?). this is also what sven has told about the origin of the virgin promos.
    but i might be wrong. i don’t really know. i just go by what i’ve read. maybe virgin did the transfer, and then the websites hosted mp3s that were sourced from the virgin promos?[/quote:23s9ae0s]

    i think the virgin promos were sourced from tigershorty’s rip of the vinyl set.

  • #41518

    Arthur
    Spectator

    With the recent post on Twitter and Facebook of a pic with several Machina II cds, I felt the need to join the discussion about it. This is what I emailed a few minutes ago, I guess it’s worthwhile keeping here also.

    \"I think with Machina II we have to think outside the box a little.

    Billy sure would have remembered sending a studio master to Virgin. But he doesn’t. So I think it didn’t happen. Making it likely that Virgin used a vinyl rip. Not Q101, not Eric Agnew.

    To me, Q101 is a ‘friend’ of Billy, they received a vinyl copy ‘to spread this shit for free’. And hell they did, they made a beautiful release in the spirit of the vinyl. And spread it for free to 2,000 fans that won some radio contest. It must have cost them 1,000s and 1,000s of dollars! So I would consider it as an official release. It was a release asked for by Billy Corgan. But it is grey area, since it is not Constantinople Records, nor Virgin or sub-label. But Virgin never seriously considered a release, except that we know of 3 promos; 2 inhouse promo sets (US and UK) and a promo send to media partners outside of Virgin in Germany CLEARLY approved by Billy Corgan.

    I consider a bootleg as a commercial non-label release that never got the credit from band/management. Q101 is not on that level I’m sure. It’s funny that they call it a bootleg anyway in the liner notes. My 2 cents on this.\"

  • #41519

    Arthur
    Spectator

    I said that because I checked the liner notes on my Q101 copy.

    \"Q101 Machina II bootleg. The Smashing Pumpkins gave Q101 one of only 25 acetate albums pressed with this music. We’ve mastered the songs for CD, and reproduced the packaging. This CD is a hand-numbered limited edition created for you, the Smashing Pumpkins fan. The Smashing Pumpkins wanted to give the world hassle-free access to their final album. It’s not for purchase or resale. Keep the spirit. When you’re finished, pass it on.\"

  • #41520

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    just obtained CR-04 from eBay. so put me back in the running for a complete set! (although, it may take quite some time) ;)

    *stoked*

  • #41521

    just obtained CR-04 from eBay. so put me back in the running for a complete set! (although, it may take quite some time) ;)

    *stoked*[/quote:3ekdqak8]
    i was watching that auction, because for the longest time, it was on $3 or so.

    i already thought it was you who won it! congrats! :wink:
    not a bad price either.

  • #41522

    Arthur
    Spectator

    Congrats indeed! Where is the updated list?

  • #8569860

    some of these went on ebay recently.
    were any spfreaks members the seller or the buyer?
    isn’t it a bit weird that so many copies suddenly pop up in such a short time? (well, not that many at all, but way more than normally, i think.) any chance someone is bootlegging these?

    does this influence our estimate of how many copies of this set have ever been made? (did someone say 10? that seems too low now.)

    check it out:

    31 December 2016
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/112247468184 CR-01 $107.50
    not a bad deal, in my opinion.
    note that this copy was sold in 2001 in amoeba records for only $14.95. the old sticker is still on the cd case. lol!

    9 March 2017 (same seller for all auctions)
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/112324338894 CR-01 $301.21
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/112324339322 CR-02 $255.00
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/361920522336 CR-03 $310.00
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/361920526887 CR-04 $384.79
    so $1251 for the full set. whoa!

    17 March 2017
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/192126143651 full set $870
    not in very good condition. one of the cds looks damaged. “whoa” again.

    that was just a very quick search. maybe there are more? if you see more, please post.

  • #8569864

    manillascissor
    Keymaster

    i don’t think the recent auctions are fake, but it’s definitely worth keeping an eye out for bootleg versions to pop up.  i never understood the 7-10 estimate, but it seems that it’s still ridiculously hard to find.  1251 and 870 are insane prices for the sets.

  • #8569875

    maybe they made 25 copies of the US Virgin promo set? (same amount as number of original copies on vinyl.)
    or would that estimate still be too low?
    it’s definitely very rare, but 10 copies doesn’t seem to make much sense.

  • #8569877

    geofolkers
    Spectator

    I wouldn’t be too surprised if there were 25 copies but I can’t imagine there are more than that. The fact that these had album art at the “in-house” level says something. 
    I think that these are made as a internal promotional pitch for M2.
    I don’t totally believe the story of M2 being a “final fuck you” narrative. I think there’s more to the story. 

  • #8569878

    mickyshambles
    Spectator

    I put in the high bid on CR03. I saw the others go for a high amount and thought “man, fuck those other freaks – this freak is gonna get a step closer to completing his collection!”
    After the auction, and although I wouldn’t have regretted buying it, I wondered if the other winning bids were from the same buyer. I wouldn’t like any sets to be split up,  so I asked the seller on ebay (I’d like to take this opportunity to accept the 2017 Spfreaks Heart of Gold Award). He said they were from the same buyer, and that he had left a note on the invoice for me saying that the other buyer would like to contact me. I was thinking he could have a complete set and maybe I could make a quick hundred bucks/quid. When he mentioned a possible trade, I said that I was looking for the daughter flexidisc. He had it, and I agreed to just buy it off him and cancel my bid on the CR03 cd. So at least you know that that complete set is still together.

    The flexidisc is now with me and I’m very pleased! I wanted it more than the cd set but hopefully they’ll be another chance in the future to get the machina ii cds for a more reasonable price. I know that there were more flexis pressed than the cd set but the last time I had known of someone obtaining one was you, Cream, I guess nearly ten years ago. I’d only actively been looking for one for the daughter discs for the last couple of years though and hadn’t seen any for sale.

    I see that the tatty set has been up for auction twice since. I wonder why the buyers cancelled the sales. I made a lower bid for them when the first sale was cancelled but the seller was expecting more from other buyers. So if you’re reading, the offer’s still open. 🙂

  • #8569883

    ah yes, it was relisted. $850 starting bid. 0 bids. twice.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/192140637631
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/192149244576

  • #8569886

    mickyshambles
    Spectator

    oh, ok, so only one auction was cancelled. maybe i’ll email the seller after i spend too much at glastonbury. :/

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