- This topic has 131 replies, 30,539 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 4 months ago by
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Never seen this before,and now i see two in one day.
Me thinks its a fake.
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yeah, we’re fairly certain that these are fake.
note that there’s also a black vinyl version of this fake mcis 3lp.http://forum.spfreaks.com/viewtopic.php?t=249
http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=155411 -
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Never seen this before,and now i see two in one day.
Me thinks its a fake.[/quote:9jskchhg]
Me too jawn till dusk, though I’m no vinyl expert. But I asked a few dealers, and it is not in their official systems to be ordered. People that pay tons of money for this are crazy, it’s a bootie! A good one though, they spend quite some attention to it. Check Cool As Ice Creams links and you’ll find out. -
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Right.
One question:
How do you determine the original unnumbered pressing from the new fake unnumbered pressing? LOL. Impossible?[/quote:3bqbyvnk]
I guess not? Is there an original unnumbered pressing anyway? I mean there is this empty white box version, but that is a clear difference then, right? Also the matrixnumbers are different, I think Cool As Ice Cream described those things here on the forum already. -
How do you determine the original unnumbered pressing from the new fake unnumbered pressing? LOL. Impossible?[/quote:mh3muklx]
the real copies have that white box in the lower right corner, with or without number
the fake copies don’t have a white boxthat’s the easiest way.
if you can’t see if there’s a white box or not in the pictures on ebay, don’t trust it. there are more fakes for sale right now than real ones.
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if you can’t see if there’s a white box or not in the pictures on ebay, don’t trust it. there are more fakes for sale right now than real ones.[/quote:mt6rpzw5]
I got that guts feeling also. Some people are getting quite rich at these moments, releasing that fake Mellon Collie vinyl. Disgusting, if you ask me. I feel sorry for the fans buying that boot and thinking they are getting the real stuff. Which they don’t. -
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Arthur, why don’t you make a front page expose about this. For casual fans that visit the site, but might not visit the forum. Then we’d be promoting good business w/i the Smashing Pumpkins community, and also screwing over the people who are making/selling these fakes.[/quote:2ygzfquf]
Excellent idea. Working on that as we speak, give me a few minutes. First we need an entry on SPfreaks in the Vinyl booties section, then I’ll create a frontpage news item. Again, excellent idea, manillascissor. Fuck those screwers! -
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I collected images from eBay of the yellow MCIS 3LP. I’ll mail them to you, Arthur.[/quote:11i8s28w]
Found them, they are used in the news article (see frontpage SPfreaks) and in the upload of the item.http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=2117
Thanks Cool As Ice Cream!
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maybe you should add pictures of the two official releases, numbered and unnumbered, to make it clear how they look like.
i don’t think most casual fans will immediately know what you mean with \"unboxed\". so without a clearer explanation or pictures that show where the difference is betweent the fakes and the official releases, this news item kinda misses its point (warning the casual fans who might be interested in a mellon collie vinyl).
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that looks great! nice work you two.
another idea may be to alert sp.com, they could make some sort of post about it as well. i’d leave that to you arthur, as you’ve been contacting someone over there recently. maybe they’ll just link over to our site. that would kick butt.[/quote:10cdhj08]
Your wish is my command manillascissor. I uploaded it on their User News section already this afternoon, but it takes a few hours, up to a day sometimes, before it shows. If it shows… -
Dammit, should have thought of this sooner.
Put a little extra at the end of the MCIS BL warning stating (something along the lines of) \"If you have any queries or uncertainties about other items that you suspect are bootlegs, please contact us blah blah blah\"
Seeing as you guys are the resident experts on SP items, you would be the most able to clear things up, methinks.
But then again… most information is available in the collection, so they could (should) go there first before contacting…
I don’t know. Do what you want with this idea. -
Dammit, should have thought of this sooner.
Put a little extra at the end of the MCIS BL warning stating (something along the lines of) "If you have any queries or uncertainties about other items that you suspect are bootlegs, please contact us blah blah blah"
Seeing as you guys are the resident experts on SP items, you would be the most able to clear things up, methinks.
But then again… most information is available in the collection, so they could (should) go there first before contacting…
I don’t know. Do what you want with this idea.[/quote:3nz7hmjn]Excellent idea Super. Ultimately up to Mr. Arthur though. *cough, hint, cough*
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Yup, good idea Superlordspamulon. I’ll change the text a little later today.
Meanwhile the news is on sp.com, and it created a big buzz in a few hours already. People report this bootie even in South America! And the News section on SPfreaks is getting tons of hits, unbelievable!
http://www.smashingpumpkins.com/membernews_3351
By the way, I’m very curious about the official point of view of the Smashing Pumpkins or their staff…
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An incoming email of today…
\"Subject: MCIS bootleg!! aaaah
Thanks for the info on the bootleg vesrsion of Infinite Sadness. I just picked up a copy here in Rotterdam, Netherlands thinking I picked up an original. But turns out I got the all yellow vinyl version without the number on the front sleeve for 50 euro. It was too good to be true. I’m gonna go back and tell the guy at the record shop about this indecency.
kind regards
Chris Parkes\"
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An incoming email of today…
"Subject: MCIS bootleg!! aaaah
Thanks for the info on the bootleg vesrsion of Infinite Sadness. I just picked up a copy here in Rotterdam, Netherlands thinking I picked up an original. But turns out I got the all yellow vinyl version without the number on the front sleeve for 50 euro. It was too good to be true. I’m gonna go back and tell the guy at the record shop about this indecency.
kind regards
Chris Parkes"[/quote:s33rjd3t]
SPFreaks: 1. Bootleggers: 0.
Sort of. -
I wouldn’t mind buying that yellow vinyl for 50 euro. That would be the most I would be prepared to pay for it though. I normally don’t pay for bootlegs, but it would be interesting to have this one too, so I could have a closer look at it.
If so many record store are carrying this yellow MCIS 3LP (for more reasonable prices than what they go for on eBay), are there any record stores selling it online? If you know a place, a link would be nice.
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Yeah, I’m that Parkes guy that picked up this vinyl today and sent that email. Any questions for the man with the bootleg version? I gotta say, if it’s a bootleg, they did a damn good job, I’m very impressed! kudoos, this thing is going to take if we don’t put a stop to this. I assume you accept any members to this crusade.
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Hey Sparky, welcome man. And thanks for your email! You explained the feelings of the average innocent collector pretty well, so I thought it is worthwhile publishing your message here also, including the follow-up action you have in mind. Hope you don’t mind!
I think it would be a good idea to ask about the background of the boot. Where did it come from, where was it pressed, how and where did they order it and from which company did they buy it? How many copies are around, in what quantities could it be ordered? You can tell the seller it is not on the official ordering systems, so how the heck did they get it anyway? Would be very interesting to know. But you can expect some dodgy behaviour I guess…
I would feel pretty shit also knowing this MCIS vinyl was a boot, expecting it to be the real thing. Good luck Sparky!
(which reminds me of a boot cd I once bought in 2000/2001, the \"Towers Records promo\". Boy, did I feel being ripped off when it turned out to be a home-made CD-R…
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Yeah, I’m that Parkes guy that picked up this vinyl today and sent that email. Any questions for the man with the bootleg version? I gotta say, if it’s a bootleg, they did a damn good job, I’m very impressed! kudoos, this thing is going to take if we don’t put a stop to this. I assume you accept any members to this crusade.[/quote:2adg7jm0]
Yep, I can confirm that. If this (the black vinyl version w/o the white box) is fake it’s possibly the best fake/counterfeit i’ve ever encountered. But I have to admit that I have nothing to compare to.
If they havent’t allready been posted, the matrix codes are:
7243 8 41655 – A –
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7243 8 41655 – F –edit: the seller stated in his auction that it sat in his shelf for a couple of years. and he wasn’t a professional seller….
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I’m afraid it is true. These MCIS vinyls only appear since late 2007, and look brand new, just pressed a little while before. You can see that on the sleeves and on the booklet also. No official shop has it, or can order it for you, as it’s not official. It only appears on the internet, on record fairs and inside doubtful shops where you normally find many more bootlegs of other bands also. So whatever information they give you, be very careful.
But it is indeed a welldone pressing. I can understand that some collectors, that have the genuine numbered MCIS vinyl release already in their collection, wants to have it just for fun, for a cheap price. Other collectors are being fooled, and that’s exactly what these bootleggers want: to rip you honest guys off. I feel sick when I think of this.
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Well, I went back to the record shop and talked to the guy that sold me this album. He seemed surprised when I told him it was a bootleg, and honestly wasn’t attempting to rip me off. He didn’t accept returns, but I understand. He actually believed that the Pumpkins came out with a new pressing, which I could understand as well.
I started probing where abouts he got this, which he was reluctant to give me too many details. He said he got this Pumpkins album from his normal supplier in Europe, (quite possibly in the Netherlands or Belgium). This unfortunatly doesn’t tell us much, since the supplier could certaintly have gotten it from another source. He said he got it recently as well. I go to this shop quite often just to browse, so maybe I can dig a little more another day.
so I’m still debating to keep this or not, would anyone here be interested in buying it?
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I wouldn’t mind buying that yellow vinyl for 50 euro. That would be the most I would be prepared to pay for it though. I normally don’t pay for bootlegs, but it would be interesting to have this one too, so I could have a closer look at it.
If so many record store are carrying this yellow MCIS 3LP (for more reasonable prices than what they go for on eBay), are there any record stores selling it online? If you know a place, a link would be nice.[/quote:1ae0oxrr]
I think you have a chance here. Still it’s funny that you couldn’t get a full refund. He’s probably working in an independant store, right? -
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so I’m still debating to keep this or not, would anyone here be interested in buying it?[/quote:3c5fzigq]
it’s the yellow vinyl, right? for 50 euro? how much would it cost to send it to belgium?[/quote:3c5fzigq]Yes, it’s the yellow vinyl. Quite beautiful actually. I don’t know how much shipping is here in Europe. I would just be shipping from Rotterdam, so I bet it would be quite cheap. I’ve never shipped vinyl before, I don’t want it to get banged up before you see it – especially the corners. my email is pcherokee@gmail.com
As for the store, it was an independent. He normally doesn’t accept returns unless something was wrong with the record before purchase. If he knew it was a boot or not, what difference does it make. At least he wasn’t charging too much for a well made 3LP – I’d give him that credit at least.
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Yes, it’s the yellow vinyl. Quite beautiful actually. I don’t know how much shipping is here in Europe. I would just be shipping from Rotterdam, so I bet it would be quite cheap. I’ve never shipped vinyl before, I don’t want it to get banged up before you see it – especially the corners. my email is pcherokee@gmail.com
As for the store, it was an independent. He normally doesn’t accept returns unless something was wrong with the record before purchase. If he knew it was a boot or not, what difference does it make. At least he wasn’t charging too much for a well made 3LP – I’d give him that credit at least.[/quote:1tipq8kt]
Sparky
Just to make you aware, you can use the private message function on this board to give out sensitive information, such as your personal email address. Just putting it out there, you may not care. -
i gave the fake black vinyl a listen yesterday and i must say, on some songs the quality is clearly lower than on the real vinyl. stumbleine sounds really bad, for example.
i heard someone say the fake vinyls are cd sourced, but i wonder what that statement was based on. i guess it was just a random thought, not based on anything. i personally think they used one of the original vinyls as source for the bootleg.
a second bootleg is on the way. once it has arrived, i can compare both. if both have vinyl pops on the exact same locations, my thought (about the bootleg being vinyl sourced) will be confirmed.
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i gave the fake black vinyl a listen yesterday and i must say, on some songs the quality is clearly lower than on the real vinyl. stumbleine sounds really bad, for example.
i heard someone say the fake vinyls are cd sourced, but i wonder what that statement was based on. i guess it was just a random thought, not based on anything. i personally think they used one of the original vinyls as source for the bootleg.
a second bootleg is on the way. once it has arrived, i can compare both. if both have vinyl pops on the exact same locations, my thought (about the bootleg being vinyl sourced) will be confirmed.[/quote:3h1trs12]
you da man!
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*pops back into existence*
Glad i saw this thread, i was about to pay £50 for a red one, thought something was fishy so i checked here.
Edit: Red one
[url:3hsqb8vs]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SMASHING-PUMPKINS-Mellon-Collie-Red-Vinyl-3LP-Rare_W0QQitemZ230239083424QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item230239083424[/url:3hsqb8vs]
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if i get one of these, i can make the belgian flag with mcis vinyl bootlegs…
[/quote:1if90b8p]
You just gave us a clue where they are pressed.
I asked the seller what he knows about the background of this MCIS red vinyl. This is his answer.
"hi this is the second repress of the original LP the first was yellow vinyl this is red around 200 copies printed.the original with number sells for mega bucks."
So I asked him (again) if this is a bootleg or not, whether and where it was pressed by Virgin/HUT, etc. Keep you posted.
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do you think the seller:
– is making this up
– heard this from the person he got it from and believes those numbers to be true
– or is very close to the source of these vinyls and definitely knows the truth (not necessarily speaking the truth though)?btw, he mentions the yellow vinyl as the first repress and calls the red vinyl the second repress, but what about the black vinyl bootlegs?
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My guts feeling says: he knows nothing, probably telling what he heard from others (most likely his supplier). When I judge his appearance on eBay:
-member since June 6th, 2003 in United Kingdom
-feedback since 2003: 16 with 1 very recent negative (actually today: \"Very disappointed, Disc advertised as mint, but it is scuffed and scratched!\"), total score 94.4% positive
-changed his nick less than a month agoThen all in all I’m not impressed. To say the least. Curious about his next answer though.
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haha, cruel.[/quote:31b1zoo5]
I created seperate entries for the yellow and red bootleg vinyls.
http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=2321
http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=2322Also the news on SPfreaks.com homepage has been adjusted.
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Amongst several bootlegs (all reported, nya nya nya) there’s 1 genuine numbered MCIS on eBay.
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Arthur wrote:
Amongst several bootlegs (all reported, nya nya nya) there’s 1 genuine numbered MCIS on eBay.
[/quote:2nfnkcqi]Yeah, its seems like most of the MCIS vinyls on ebay are the fake ones anymore. I just can’t believe I see people paying $100-$200 for them. I would think they would seek out a bit more info on an expensive item like that before purchasing. I always try to make sure I know about what I’m potentially buying.
Does anyone have any idea on how many different people are actually selling the bootlegs on ebay? If its a small group, reporting them might make a difference. It says in ebay’s policy section that selling bootleg can get you permanently kicked off of the site. If enough people were turned in enough times, maybe it would help curb the problem on ebay at least. Just a thought.
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We suddenly get like 150+ different visitors from this place in just a few hours. It helps to publish about this fake vinyl I guess.
Let’s keep this work up!
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http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=5b9b … bbfbb38b9a
i think i’ll make a thread about it on netphoria, because i think more people read it.
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hi there,
this is my first post here!!!
anyways,
i bought the fake one from a store in athens…i read about the matrix number (and saw the relevant topic on the authentic MCATIS) and decided to compare the two editions. i really couldn’t find any difference on the numbers, codes or whatever else… surrely the printing is horrible, the box can’t close and is not as glossy as the authentic one, and the booklet looks like a photocopy (paper is whiter than the original). bought it for 37 euros because i thought it was an official reprint but when i saw the discs i understoood that this couldn’t be an official not limited reprint.
ps
i think the same thing happens with TAFH boxset! a friend of mine was searching ebay to buy it and found some auctions that probably were not authentic. -
Hi billy_wretzky! (I’m not sure if this combi was ever intended in real life…
)Did you read the article on the homepage of http://www.spfreaks.com ? It explains about the differences between the bootleg and the official release quite well, also it provides helpful links.
And what about that TAFH box? Also bootlegged? Please tell more! It might be a next scoop!
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What now TAFH is being bootlegged.
[/quote:1i6kl2al]
hold your horses. it’s not impossible, but i doubt it. i’d like to see the pictures of those suspicious ebay auctions first. or at least a description of these boxes and the reasons why one would think that they’re bootlegs.don’t forget, the only thing we got here is a friend of someone that saw some auctions on ebay and thought they were not legit. that’s not much. and until we find out more about it, i think it’s way too early to conclude that the tafh box set is being bootlegged.
maybe this friend saw a box set where one of the singles was replaced by one of the commercial singles? not the real box set: agreed. a bootleg: no.
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http://cgi.ebay.com/Smashing-Pumpkins-M … dZViewItem
is this one real?
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With just 1 look at the pic you must be able to judge that bullet, we published tons of guidelines already about that.
The summary is still in the News section on the homepage of http://www.spfreaks.com
And I second Cool As Ice Cream’s comment on the supposed TAFH bootleg boxset. Prove it.
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i know i know, but i tend to get confused on them. there are so many of the diffrent colors of bootleggs, (colors as in the color of the actual record), and so many people selling them.
to clear it up for me and maybe anyone else out there who might still be confused,
white box with numbers yes really real, no white box with numbers totally fake rip off. right?
and if there is a white box, just no numbers it is real, but second pressing right?
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hey arthur,
as far as the mcatis is concerned i read the article (but not very carefully to be honest), as far as the indexing and numbering is concerned i couldn’t tell any real difference besides all the things i fore mentioned (i will read once again the article though).i have this nick for quite some years now… i thought who are my \"heroes\", billy and d’arcy. billy is weird in a good way and d’arcy has this \"icy\" thing that i like. sooo..billy_wretzky is thy name.lol
as far as the TAFH is concerned i had made this conversation with that friend of mine, who has spend many hours in front of ebay and i remember that she was troubled whether the boxsets she had found were the authentic or reprints (i doubt these are boots since it is way to difficult to reproduce such a box). anyway, i wiil ask her again and tell her to take some pics of the box she bought (because she bought one) and check it out! (but this will take a long time).
what i am saying here SHOULD not be taken for granted. if we want to clear this out we can do it collectively and after gathering any info we could reach to a coclusion. right?
as soon as i have any more info i will update.
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i know i know, but i tend to get confused on them. there are so many of the diffrent colors of bootleggs, (colors as in the color of the actual record), and so many people selling them.
to clear it up for me and maybe anyone else out there who might still be confused,
white box with numbers yes really real, no white box with numbers totally fake rip off. right?
and if there is a white box, just no numbers it is real, but second pressing right?[/quote:360k8aa4]
You got it.
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i know i know, but i tend to get confused on them. there are so many of the diffrent colors of bootleggs, (colors as in the color of the actual record), and so many people selling them.
to clear it up for me and maybe anyone else out there who might still be confused,
white box with numbers yes really real, no white box with numbers totally fake rip off. right?
and if there is a white box, just no numbers it is real, but second pressing right?[/quote:20s1yey2]
You got it.[/quote:20s1yey2]
thank you for helping me to completly understand, you are very helpfull.
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http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=159282%5B/quote:26evtkg1%5D
Interesting read. Thanks for going through all the trouble.
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OK, old news, but still funny. Even on the eBay forums they have talked about us a while back.
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I’ve heard only the numbered are "real"? However, there are 15000 copies numbered.[/quote:d6licakq]
That’s incorrect. They did a second pressing that was unnumbered. And there are definitely more than 15,000 copies of the numbered pressing.[/quote:d6licakq]didnt it go up to 20,000 numbered? i at least remember reading somewhere 18,000
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http://cgi.ebay.com/Smashing-Pumpkins-M … 27b1fa0519
Now there’s a clear one? WTF?
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Now there’s a clear one? WTF?[/quote:23blmigd]
i saw that. kinda cool. kinda not.
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The rest room was probably occupied, so this vinyl plant employee didn’t know another place to get rid of his diarrhea?
Thanks CAIC, pics will be uploaded shorty, and we will update the article about this diseased vinyl on WordPress also. ( http://spfreaks.wordpress.com/2008/03/0 … a-disease/ )
Is it correct that we now have black, yellow, red and (clear) brown for this fake vinyl? No other colors discovered in the meantime?
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The rest room was probably occupied, so this vinyl plant employee didn’t know another place to get rid of his diarrhea?
Thanks CAIC, pics will be uploaded shorty, and we will update the article about this diseased vinyl on WordPress also. ( http://spfreaks.wordpress.com/2008/03/0 … a-disease/ )
Is it correct that we now have black, yellow, red and (clear) brown for this fake vinyl? No other colors discovered in the meantime?[/quote:3lhymhb3]
it would be slightly more correct to call it ‘translucent brown’ and there is also a known plain ol’ ‘clear’ pressing
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Why there are some some part of matrix area missing? Is that supposed to be a moon or something?
[/quote:1y3xo8w4]
there isn’t anything missing. the vinyl is see-through. the black stuff you see around the label, is the hole in the middle of the inner sleeve. well, the part of the hole that isn’t covered by the label on the record.
do you see what i mean? -
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Why there are some some part of matrix area missing? Is that supposed to be a moon or something?
[/quote:248o5179]
there isn’t anything missing. the vinyl is see-through. the black stuff you see around the label, is the hole in the middle of the inner sleeve. well, the part of the hole that isn’t covered by the label on the record.
do you see what i mean?[/quote:248o5179]That makes sense.
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no, those records i recently found out are just mass produced by some company. they have an online shop (the RIAA) that they order theirs from. i can’t remember all the info.
the record will play something, probably more similar to white noise. i would expect the record to be gold in color as well, so that is another tiny fuck up. or, major, perhaps.
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the ‘clear’ one is back
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Smashing-Pumpki … 460b6217b3I don’t know how they sell these with the reissue being out now…
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hilarious.[/quote:2o43kv0z]
wow… did someone really ruin an unnumbered copy by adding their own number?The front cover number at lower right looks like is is hand written with a ball point pen, but it may have just been traced over with pen.[/quote:2o43kv0z]
<a href="http://i62.tinypic.com/o6dv1t.jpg:2o43kv0z]
[/url:2o43kv0z”> -
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