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it was not quite a ‘top notch’ release.
so:
– make sure the vinyl is not warped
– make sure the vinyl is not scratched
– make sure there are no bumps or dents in the outer sleeve (it’s not really thick cardboard)
– make sure the inner sleeve is ok
– are the inserts there? especially: the booklet as the LP cames with a booklet…. (sometimes or mostly: some flyers were added too…)opened state, with the above checked and OK…
i’d say LiD might fetch somewhere between USD 75 – 125 depending on the condition…
(this used to be way higher back in the days…- yep! i’ve been there and paid way more…)
(still: it’s all up to the infamous: ‘what anyone is willing to pay’-thing…: this seems to be an objective idea of the per se value of the item, though i really could see a LiD LP go for USD 250 too, even know… the market just fluctuates and you can never really tell…)just make sure to check the vinyl and the sleeve are ok and the insert booklet is there.
then: make up your own mind if the price is right for what you’re getting.good luck.
Cool… I only have two, and that’s where it ends… not interested in purchasing more… The other one is the TAFH award, which is quite rare I guess… but it’s stunning, together with the MCIS award!
http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=408 (pics are from my copy)[/quote:3u78jdyq]
Yep! The TAFH-award is a TRUELY stunning piece!!! The 3-D effect really brings it all ‘to live’ so the speak! That one’s really amazing!
I’m still looking for the ‘fish eye’ Gish-award though. Beyond awesome? Yep! Never seen one up for auction nor sale though, unfortunately…
Dazey, this is on the shortlist too.
http://everything2.com/title/Silverfuck[/quote:1wvll45u]
some days later in Pensacola they did the longest one ever
http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1997-02-04still: i prefer ‘long’ Silverfuck jams from a little bit earlier into the tour, again: like @ GM Place…
not only because of the sound quality, but also because even in Silverfuck, then and there, around those times, less is more… yep…@Arthur: A new compilation.
Phantastic. You’re the man 
[/quote:1247lq3n]thanks a lot for this link!!!
this brings back SO many memories…
especially to the times spent with Jan (Junebug) and Manuel on the 2000 tours…
it’s so awesome to relive those times again now, by reading his review anewyeah, just ask here. it’s always better to get more than one opinion.[/quote:qht13h0i]
agreed!-
as bram, shawn, (ahum…) i myself, jeroen, marc… there are quite some around to chip in…
btw:
how we came unto this recording is quite an adventure in and of itself…
somewhere back in 96 or 97 i stumbled upon a site from a British guy. he listed a lot of live recordings by quite an array of different acts. loads of dates were off therein.
however: he did list the 93 Vredenburg, Utrecht, NL show, one in London (Town and Country Club I think it was) and the Kleine Markthalle show.
he didn’t trade. he did sell though. this was ‘not-done’ per se in trading cycles, but somehow i thought: what the heck? and went along and bought the discs and the video tape. these turned to be correctly labelled. these were until then not circulated or found recordings. especially the show from Kleine Markthalle proved to be a gem due to the first known performance of Today. the performance from Utrecht is pretty cool too.
it was somewhat a shot in the dark to buy these recordings, running the risk of these being mislabelled and all, but it turned out great. some copies were made quite a bit later and then the recordings spread further. i haven’t seen the video up anywhere though.
i can’t remember correctly, but i think the guy told me he used to work for bands or had a friend or friends or collegues who did and that was how he got a hold of these recordings.
it was just pure chance i stumbled unto his site and found these…and:
here is a cool review, in German:http://www.rigmarole.de/smashingpumpkins/reviews/review1992-08-31.htmlEDIT!!! > i just found the cd!!!:)
damn: this Today is just so AWESOME!!! the recording might be below par, the performance of this song, even back then; it’s just amazing… if you haven’t heard this before, you’re in for a treat: hearing the first known performance of Today, THE HIT SINGLE, just blows my mind, even now, again….
plus: like i said… all of BCs stories of how he came home from the Gish tours and lived in a crappy place and the label demanding a hit and him writing this at his lowest of lows… hmmm… doesn’t quite add up, does it, dude???> Today: it’s the take from: Kleine Markthalle, Hamburg[/quote:1mglx4tb]
Got it, but maybe your file is better quality? Let’s see…[/quote:1mglx4tb]doubt it. the audio is video-sourced and not the best to start with. you might wanna check with Jeroen. he did the tracksplit for me. he might be able to find this quicker than me. i just checked the most obvious of places and failed to track it down. found the video though…
now watching… quite an amazing sight @Sven: I’ll try to find that Today version you mentioned (or can you send it to me, maybe?), but for the moment I have an acoustic version (with cello!!!) from 1993 on top of the list. Not to be missed also I think. I Am One metal version was already included in a previous SPfreaks release, so… And I have found a cool Pissant rant version, also an I Of The Mourning with rant, so I think that will be nice to include also. Furthermore, I have 2 By Starlight versions at the moment, 1 early version from February 1995, and a slower version from UK 1997. I’ll compare it with the GM Place version, OK?
[/quote:1fi46ivh]> Today: it’s the take from: Kleine Markthalle, Hamburg; sorry… i just do not have the time now to send it. it is from this show:http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=921 i’ve got the video for this show and an audio transfer: SOMEWHERE… Arthur: you know my archive and all… takes some time to find this one though… if I remember correctly my transfer was a one-track even, but!: i think i know too my friend Jeroen made an edited version for me… will look for this one tomorrow!!!
> Today: cello-version is cool and OK; though: there are way cooler songs with cello
for example: the 1993 Rhinoceros? > I Am One: OK.
> By Starlight: even as this version from the GM Place doesn’t feature JC, if i’d have to pick one of the best live performances ever by TSP in terms of goosebumps and shivers and tears: it’s this take of By Starlight, for sure
just to make a statement in proving BC’s remarks towards the writing of ‘Today’ , as being written, because the record company wanted a hit-single…!, WRONG… > you might want to consider the inclusion of the very first known recording of ‘Today’… way back from 92 that is; way before there was ever any mention of the label meddling in hit-single or not-affairs…
the infamous ‘I Am One’ (loud/fast/metal-version) can’t be overlooked, right???
same goes for the UTTERLY BRILLIANT early 1996 version of ‘Rocket’!!!…. awww, that’s so stunning…
speaking of stunning: how about: ‘By Starlight’ from 1997 GM Place, Vancouver???!!!
for some strange reason i just re-read and re-read and re-read this tonight
Arthur > awesome interview!!! especially with John
great info, great read…
brings back loads of memories to the day a friend called me with the news, failed to get tickets, took a train back home and with some mates huddling in my parent’s living room with some beers and listening to the radio; glued to the radio even! for old times’ sake, so to speak
owww… those were great memories and though i’d seen TSP that year, then and there i made the resolution not to miss a Dutch show or a major special show again… oh well, dunno if this resolution panned out to perfection, but at least i tried my utmost best, since the announcement was a TRUE shocker; really!!! totally unexpected.
just like when i went to my local record store with my best friend, saw TSP confirmed as headliners for Pukkelpop, came home, got an OK from my parents to go, called him and another best friend and we KNEW we would be going
out of the blue on just some standard ‘dull’ Saturday afternoonnot mentioning triclops isn’t necessarily a mistake. that sounds a bit too harsh to me. ok, the information is not complete, but it says that cherub rock is taken from siamese dream. maybe they hereby suggest that you check out the liner notes of that album if you want to know more about the track?[/quote:2s4exc4k]
basically not mentioning Triclops is an omission. not a mistake. however: noting the songs were recorded at Smart Studios is a mistake. therefore… even, if CR is mentioned to have been take from SD… the production credit seems ‘wrong’ too… it’s un-produced in sound; OK: it’s BCs ‘production’; maybe Butch Vig turned him to recording this song and this was a late night recording or something…
then the correct credit would’ve been, at least to me:
written by billy corgan. purr snickety produced and recorded by billy corgan with butch vig, at smart studios, wi. published by cinderful music/mca music ltd. cherub rock is taken from the album "siamese dream". [et cetera…]
as i write this…: mind you!!!:
– gish was published under ‘copyright control’
– as were subsequent releases
– lull then; switched the publishing credit to: cinderful music/mca…
> so: for then on, BC’s publishing catalog was carried by and under that name…– the CR single mentions cinderful music/mca for the publishing rights.
– SD, where CR’s taken from, switches the name to: cinderful songs/mca…
(later on the name is switched to cinderella and subsequently to other companies and all…)so:
– if the inferred recording date for PS is correct and thus in 1990/1991, the mention of cinderful music/mca makes total sense as indeed and in fact: this company would then per se have held the rights to the song, from then on, under that name…
– this at least: ‘seems’ to give some little bit of more credibility to the ‘inferred "fact"’ PS was recorded somewhere during the Gish sessions at Butch Vig’s studio, Smart Studios, Madison, WI.
– it’s not to far-fetched to think all and anything recorded then and there with Vig, would, contractually, have to be credited to both: Vig as producer, plus: to his studios.
– therefore and thus: it makes even more total sense to allocate PS to the batch of recordings at Smart Studios, with Vig, for Gish; even as this is just a ‘scrap-demo’-take and nothing more…also:
– see how the publishing company switches to cinderful songs/mca for SD and thus for: CR!!!; clearly another ‘era’ thus…Info is direct from the back of the picture sleeve, see 3rd line from the bottom[/quote:368b809u]
Hmm, yeah… it’s a clue indeed. When we presume that this info refers to the b-side only, then the history for Purr Snickety can be re-written… Let’s call Sven to the forum. Sven, your endless memory that always serves us well, is needed here![/quote:368b809u]as lame as this may sound:
– Cherub Rock > the released version was for sure tracked at Triclops Studios, Atlanta, GA. This is where the album was tracked and from where the single and thus (it’s the same) album version of Cherub Rcok originates.
– Purr Snickety > this MIGHT have been in fact recorded some place at Smart Studios, WI. This is Butch Vig’s studio. The best estimated guess is, this was recorded somewhere during the tracking for Gish. I guess it was at a venue called The Moon the song was played live back then…
[edit: found the date: http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=58]– as for: CR > this is an obvious error on the sleeve!
notice how the other CR-releases refer to Triclops Studios.
seems like someone just forgot to add Triclops, to the 7"-sleeve.– as for: PS > from this error we can deduce PR was indeed recorded at Smart Studios, WI. therefore the thought of the song being recorded in the Gish sessions matches up quite nicely. Gish was tracked from late 1990 – early/march 1991. playing the song live it would have made total sense for BC to record the song before, for copyright reasons for example.
– as for: PS (II) > the song is an obvious demo recording. it’s in full mono and sounds even worse than Soothe for example. this could very well be a ‘boombox’ scratch demo take to just lay down the basics of the song to at least have a reference recording. no further work on this song in studio or whatever has surfaced or has been rumoured.
hope this helps.
i wrote to sp.com about the bootlegs. hopefully it will be updated. i mean, it’s no biggie to include them, i just think people should know that they are not official.[/quote:k4vda4q3]
of course: well done.
i did the same.if and when and where an auction is ‘officially’ sanctioned and/or promoted and/or made (more) public, plus: as this auction is even put forward/featured ‘officialy’ by TSP, the info just needs to be totally accurate…
this is not excuse this listing with obvious mistakes and all… but!:
the band, BC, people working at TSP.com and all…
they just don’t have the information ready, don’t know…of course: they could just check with SPFreaks.com and get the right info!!!…
they did not. they did not before. even: before SPFreaks.com. they did not check with SPFC.org or DA’s discography.basically:
– ignorance
– slopppy worktherefore: thanks to see there are people like you too around, taking to effort to let them know the ‘facts’ and to set the record straight…
also:
check out: http://www.youtube.com/user/mzero23
at this channel, there are some pretty cool vids from Spirits in the Sky…
even from the bookstore performancehttp://www.youtube.com/user/mzero23#p/u/6/00ofPKxa1KM
http://www.youtube.com/user/mzero23#p/u/7/yvVowQOr0wY
http://www.youtube.com/user/mzero23#p/u/8/Fjtd30skCNI
pretty neat stuff…
(sorry if this has been posted before…!)
cool donation!!! > superb!!!
i’m sorry: but the description is AWFUL and SHODDY!!!—
and: to even include bootleg pressings!!!—
i’m sorry: that just doesn’t do justice to the gesture and the charity and all, as far as i am concerned…
this is just: *cringe*nonetheless: it’s quite a nice vinyl lot though…
btw…
yep: i know it’s Kerry Brown drumming for BCS, in the videos mentioned for BCS…
i just wanted to express my comps and props to Mike in the post above, not per se because of BCS…
just to make that clear…http://www.youtube.com/user/Spcherry84# … YxW_C8Mh2g
check out the other vids…
some awesome music contained therein as far as i am concerned…
haven’t seen/heard BC quite on ‘fire’ like this is some timealso, the en concierto en mexico CD is a CDR and made for a radio station with a virgin logo, but somehow it’s legitimate?
i don’t see how one is more official than the next. i think france inter probably hired sangatte records to make these CDs. does that make them bootlegs? not necessarily.
i don’t know. i’m still not convinced either way.[/quote:2co17838]
point in case is:
1. En Concerto en Mexico > fully endorsed, researched and all, sanctioned and OK’d very very very LOW KEY "release"… by the label and/or the artist…
2. The Black Sessions > look at the list… why would a radio station promo these recordings out in the first place in this pressing amount and to whom, in the first place, in these numbers? and how in the world would they get the copyrights??? nope: just re-read only the copyright lines for several ‘live’ takes by The Smashing Pumpkins released and you’ll see how this is worked-out… No way someone in Paris would be able to go through all the hassle of securing the rights and all for these promo’s, let alone: the duplication and distribution and all… nope: it just doesn’t add up; it just doesn’t work like that…
there is no such thing as sangatte records.[/quote:3gxpdoa0]
You’re wrong. http://www.sangatterecords.tk/
Here’s some info on the Black Sessions by "an outfit known as Sangatte Records": http://www.freewebs.com/blacksessions/
Anyway, almost everywhere you go, Sangatte Records is referred to as a bootleg company. Only by the looks of the CD-R you could already notice that, dear collectors, come on!
[/quote:3gxpdoa0]Still: they DO make quite an effort
Remember how everyone thinks The Black Sessions is nothing more than an elaborate FR bootleg? Well I was perusing the Radiohead discography and found this promo from their collection, from France.
[/quote:34xmpkcy]if it WERE to be REAL…
why include obvious spelling errors in the song titles???
and:
why TWICE include ‘Creep’ on this EP???
‘The Black Sessions’ are cool.
These are heavily bootlegged. Were. Have been. Are. Remains the case.Logo’s on a disc don’t mean ‘shit’…
Anyone can copy these unto a disc.There have been really BAD examples of FAKE ‘Earphoria’ cds and there have been some reasonably GOOD examples.
For even more valuable releases (some vinyl singles even, for example: by Nirvana!!!) some got really close to the original.Then there’s the point of a non-commercial EVER released cd, but owowow… !!!!
There’s a really really really rare PROMO out there!
Even easier, much easier!The ones for: The Smashing Pumpkins: FAKE / BOOTLEG!
The Radiohead one: FAKE / BOOTLEG!All of this can be traced and researched back to the source.
There IS no source for these things.
Other than the broadcast and some people trying to make a quick buck off of some collectors.It’s all BOOTLEG-BOGUS.
to me:
this is genuine—!i’ve seen ‘clear tapes’ before for the early demo tapes.
writing is akin to what i’ve seen before, too.this looks OK to me.
Bring it on, bring it on! Phabeltastik reads all this!
(Which reminds me I was supposed to get a full copy of that 6hr Kink Radio show. The DJs were getting drunk in the end, Sven told me, and he should know, being one of them…
)And let me bring in a little funny anecdote too. I know Sven only AFTER Smashing Pumpkins broke up, and only when I wanted to start SPfreaks.com in 2003. We were so surprised that between 1994 – 2003 we never had heard about each other, though both being huge fans and collectors of their music… Sven went to a rather large higher number of Smashing Pumpkins concerts though, and he had a few more music rarities back then…
We called it that I must have lived in a "parallel SP universe" in the beginning.
And it was Sven that brought me via-via into contact with a seller of the extremely rare French "La Saga Racontee" promo, including the unused and pristine order form that comes with it. I cherish that promo + form as one of my most valuable finds, with a great memory to Sven, as he is linked to that specific find in the early days of our friendship.
Check out La Saga Racontee, if you like: http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=456[/quote:2yi8swd3]
thnx.
right now: i’m too tired to write a genuine and true response.
thanks a lot! – means the world to me! – will get back to you!!!…thank you people!-
for all the kind words: much appreciated!Ok… then I have 2 different Today Singles that I don’t know if they are both from UK (One has a made in Holland sticker)
Today "Mastered by Nimbus HUTCD 37"
Today "EMI Swindon 1:1:1 2 810564"
[/quote:3q0cutxn]The one with EMI Swindon I think usually indicated a UK pressing. EMI Uden is associated with Holland. However, it could have been pressed in the UK for release in NL. Not sure how to tell.
But to me, these both scream UK antecedents.[/quote:3q0cutxn]
Swindon = in the UK > pure: UK pressing…
Uden = in The Netherlands > pure: NLD (Dutch) pressing…
at least:
that’s as far as my ‘logic’ goes, right?!—thnx
wow!- this is a really long time ago!-
good to read again though!; brings back very nice memories!…i guess i did another piece like this on the Paris and Ghent meeting and possibly on the Chicago adventure too…
damn!; gotta see if i still have those saved, somewhere…
http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=142
I think this listing should be split up into two different ones: a UK version (HUTCD43) and a US version (HUT 43). These are CLEARLY different.
I think the UK one came out first as an import to the states, and then they reissued the US version due to popular demand.
Thoughts? If we are in agreement, I’ll change it in the database.[/quote:3flzerpm]
i’d say: update the database…
indeed: the UK-singles re-released in the US.
technically and basically making these: a different release.
i’d never noticed the marked difference in appearance: thanks for pointing this out!
this is what SPFC has to say on this release: http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/disc … scog_id=14
the same applies to the singles for: Cherub Rock and Today by the way: also re-released in the US, following the initial UK release.
