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I would’ve been more impressed with a message like "thank you for taking the ride with the infinite express. departure time, always. arrival time, never." This is SO immature, US-style.[/quote:2yujjm50]
That would’ve been a great one…
Now im confused. He was ok-ed to put his signature in the dead wax? Who is "he"? The master-cutter i guess? And this polite person decides to add extra numbers with a very explicit meaning hidden inside as his signature, and this is not seen by him as jeopardizing the release? Then only someone on a high level, if not the highest level possible, has approved this joke. And im confused what message they wanted to arrive at the fans? Because, sorry master-cutter, im not going to take sucking lessons. The licking is negotiable, however. But come on![/quote:cm6kql2s]
The "he" is the person that cut the master vinyl.
He told me it was "legitimate" to put his signature in the ‘Dead Wax’.Even know more now. The plot thickens.
those quotes from netphoria are just the opinions of two different people. i don’t think they know anything. those are just guesses.[/quote:140lx4dd]
i gather these seem to be quite accurate as to the process of the mastering, cutting and matrix code etching.
i don’t understand what you’re trying to say.[/quote:39zw02ub]
OK I wil try again.
From what I’ve learned:
1- I know who cut the masters and therewith these matrix codes.
2- This person is extremely polite and gave me the information I asked for without any trouble.
3- He told me the whole of the release and mastering including the matrix codes as I asked about those specifically was "’legitimate".
4- He told me he’d never jeopardize anything with such a big release on his hands and was OK-ed to "put his signature in the Dead Wax".
5- There’s more, but I am not sure I am at liberty to talk about that in public, though nothing related to these matrix codes.That’s why I said: it’s legit or legitimate. There’s for me at least no reason to doubt this person.
I can’t say if he was told to sign the matrix the way he did or that BC explicit or implicit knew of this ‘signature’ and the message(s) spelled out. I just do not know. I can try to check this though. And will.If it was all legit, then it can only mean 1 thing, to my opinion. It is a hidden message to us, the SPfreaks community. Think about it, we are the only place that really cares about matrix codes. So who is the sender, and what is he or she telling us?[/quote:2spstk8k]
could be… "it was all legit"? what does that mean?
that the person who had to etch it only did it because he was told to do so? that these numbers were written on the form under "matrix code appendix (optional)"?[/quote:lwv8m1nm]it means what i wrote.
this is what i learned.
and this is exactly what i was told: it was legit.
i can’t tell you if someone was told to etch these matrix codes or did it with some form of consent, explicit or implicit.
not because i was told not to say or something like that, but because i don’t bear any knowledge thereof.just like i suspected, this is a major label release on highest of profiles and the chance this was not noticed or anything is rather slim.
at least now we know it was legit.
if this was a per the info you posted from Netphoria, i’m not aware, but i guess there’s a chance it was not wholly explicit consent, but the person cutting these vinyls was allowed to put an appendix in the dead wax / matrix code.two opinions on who could be responsible for this from netphoria.org:
i’ve worked with pressing plants before and it’s not about approving the matrix codes. there’s only a certain amount of information that must be etched onto the outgroove. the rest of that information is provided by the band or someone working for the band on a form that is filled out with individual boxes etc you know the type.
so it’s not about approving the numbers so much as it is who decided that they be put there. it is least likely someone at the plant took it upon themselves to do this that would be too risky.
the guys pressing really don’t care what they’re pressing on the grooves they just do what they’re told. coded language or not.[/quote:165kb5oh]
I can guarantee that Kerry was never anywhere near or had any involvement with the pressing plates.
My guess is Billy pissed someone off big time. I have a feeling he drove who ever cut the lacquer nuts. Maybe he kept rejecting test pressings or something like that.
The fact that it is only on SD and not on Gish makes me think it’s not Billy. If it was him it would have been some grand plan to do it on all the reissues before he got tired of it.
Think of it like this. They master Gish, Billy makes them recut the lacquer twice for silly reasons. SD gets mastered Billy makes them recut SD, engineer get pissed hides a few extra numbers in the matrix.
This happened when they were cutting the lacquer it’s the only thing that makes sense.[/quote:165kb5oh][/quote:165kb5oh]
I now know who etched it into the ‘dead wax’ for the matrix codes.
It was all legit. That’s all I can say.so what exactly is the story now?[/quote:k1rb2ywk]
James called D’Arcy, who called Jimmy, to make a nightly visit to the vinyl plant. The rest is history… No idea why people get so emotional about this.[/quote:k1rb2ywk]LOL
it’s all good, we all have our moments! glad everyone is on the same page now.
[/quote:1ey1qywo]Exactly and totally agreed.
Plus: thanks to Derek.
Plus 2: I’m sorry.
It took a lot of effort to get things straight on this matter.
And: a lot og energy and time too.I now know how this panned out and worked.
I had to deal with loads of people and loads of issues and feelings.
I’m sorry, ok.
At least we now know the story.
yeah! wondering what will be…
will be amazing I guess, just like the whole of the site is already…some major news in the works from me regarding TSP and will be needing SPFreaks.com input if and when it’s gonna happen, stay tuned….
I now know how this panned out as per some researching.
No worries left nor right.
Just keep things clean and simple and factual and all is well.
I don’t get it.
BC has the info.
He can decide what to do about it. We go from there.Simple?[/quote:1sdfplm2]
Yep.
So, what does he do?if i had to guess why that topic was locked, i don’t think it had anything to do with the matrix codes being discussed, but with the sudden explosion of drama from your side, sven. i think everyone was scratching their head over those couple of posts. and then someone must have closed the thread to prevent further drama.
but that’s just my guess. correct me if i’m wrong.i personally think it’s sad that the thread got closed. there is unfinished business there. i suddenly feel like i’m at the o-board or something. as soon as the excitement level goes up higher than the rim of the bathtub, the thread gets closed.
but once again, it’s not my messageboard. so carry on.sven, i hope you will come back once you have slept on this. i find this whole thing over the top. i personally don’t consider anything of what happened recently censorship.[/quote:2zj8rjkz]
i will take message from you to heart.
i will see what i will do. for now: i reply…i can not and will not live with censorship. or locking threads with on-going researching…
we all have been across too many birdges and barriers to check things.
i went out to check this and to get a statement from BC or someone else in the know…all i got was shit…
and a locked thread…
so fuck it all if you think that way…
that’s what i feel like now.i’m sorry, but why all the effort when all you get is this shit?
pearls and swine you know…—
for now i’m just disappointed in the major opinion here on a mere factual thing.
this is not how this site and community was made.
plus: i’m not here to be called a hypocrite….
just because i address some issues…If this is per se the ideology of SPFreaks I per now and per se will refrain from being a part of this community as and per how this narrow minded policiy is being conducted.[/quote:lyhaci0g]
i don’t think this is the new spfreaks.com ideology. calm down, sven. i’m sure we can work this out.
i must admit, i was also confused when i read that. see some of my previous posts.[/quote:lyhaci0g]i am sure we will.
Sorry, we as a site won’t highlight this. It just too immature. The twitter is just highlighting the positive of sp and collecting through spfreaks.[/quote:f2refvsz]
I REALLY beg to differ and do consider this stance to be an immature stance.
If this is per se the ideology of SPFreaks I per now and per se will refrain from being a part of this community as and per how this narrow minded policiy is being conducted.
I am very sorry to all of you and the TSP collecting world but I just can not and will not live with this kind of censorship, until someone tells me different.
Sorry, some songs are shite and we can say so. We’re NOT a clapping/applause machine.
If SPFreaks is to be about that, then without me.Sorry. I am disgusted, utterly, by GEOFOLKERS post. Utterly DIGUSTED!!!!
also:
please do not post things that aren’t true or haven’t happened!
i’ve just had contact with someone and things mentioned here just are not at all or in any way real nor true.
just don’t frustrate genuine research with posts that are made up, please!Quickly catching up, I was in a loooong meeting…
On a few things I read here and there: the positive thing that we always wanted to create here on SPfreaks, is that we want to help the SPfreaks members & collectors, and, in a way, the band at the same time. If we have a positive relationship between all these people, and maintain it, it will be beneficial for all of us. The more information we get directly from the band and its staff, the better! And I myself am VERY strict with rules of behaviour, even on the (anonymous) internet. We discussed this a few times before. And my opinion has not changed.
However, hot news is hot news, either good or bad. If someone doesn’t like the message, I wouldn’t give a fuck. Not even when Billy doesn’t like it. BUT! There is always the timing, and the means, aspect to a news item. In this case, when my tweet got deleted, I didn’t realize at the moment of posting it, that just screaming something like this matrix thing out there in public, is considered as "look at ME and our website! And look at the face of that surprised Billy too, who just got backstabbed at the same time!".
I hope you guys know what I mean. It’s not appropriate. Wrong timing, wrong means. What Sven did, trying to reach (friends of) Billy asap, and do further research, and then post the full story frontpage somewhere, that is more appropriate. Billy can’t stop the news, even if he wanted to. But what we can try to do as a community is "behave, with respect", at all times. And afterwards, I can understand that a person reading news about a hot and personal issue (Siamese Dream IS a very personal record to Billy!), while it is already "out there for everybody", feels like a double dagger in the back.
Thus, no issues with my tweet being deleted, because it contributes to a more positive atmosphere within existing relationships, and there is in no way censorship going on.[/quote:3j5tu5qo]
Amen to that!
I see, only a few are anywhere near the stupidity of the one on this SD vinyl though, but then again, if they had been sent any that were similar would they have put them in that list?[/quote:3ayvab78]
i think the difference is that most of the messages on that webpage were put there by the band, and not by someone else who was trying to be funny.[/quote:3ayvab78]A dear friend of mine is an avid collector of The Smiths.
The band is infamous for the messages in the run off grooves.
Those were VERY intentional.I tend to remember there’s also a Nirvana 7" with a cool message in the run off groove.
All of those were done with intent.
That’s why this is so kinda mind-boggling as I can’t fathom TSP doing this or OK-ing this.
Now we at least know BC is hurt by these remarks and not happy in any way with these run off groove messages.
Just imagine what this means to the guy:
Thousands of people buy the superb sounding new 2LP of SD and get this shit in the matrix?!also, as the editor in chief of NME told me: it’s no longer a private matter once you have the records in your hands and those are out there… so…[/quote:kqzb9zua]
what i meant is that if someone gets fired over this, for example, then that’s not really any of our business. and however they want to deal with this (leave it be, or try to find who’s responsible, or moving to another company to press the next sp vinyl releases, … i don’t know, whatever), they can do that in private.
and even though i do wonder what’s behind this, and also what might come of this, i still think handling this situation in private is the best way to deal with it.
the complete opposite way could be tweeting "hey, we got that cunt at the pressing plant, who put dirty words on siamese dream, fired. victory! LOOOOOOOL!".[/quote:kqzb9zua]exactly… we mentioned it. Monte knows, BC knows. BC’s offended and hurt.
these dudes have got a major issue on their hands to deal with.
this is not taken lightly so i’ve heard.
that’s of course all private matter to be dealt with between label, band, management and pressing or mastering plants.
but, when shit hits the fan and is out there, just don’t be too surprised if someone picks up on this and goes public with the matrix code remarks.
that might be totally fucked for BC and the band and all, but that’s how it works when you put things out to the public.now: is it up to us to go major public with these facts?
the journalist in me says: yes, if and when we’ve got the facts straight and all the info we need.
with respect to BC i would also say, yes, but not in the way you described your tweet-example, but just like we fact checked the grey Tristessa story.
does that mean we need to involve major music magazines? well, yes, as per they know their way to check rather quicker than we might be able to do these facts.
will they go live with these matters? maybe. is that a bad thing? no, if they manage to get an address and good quote from either BC or the management or whatever to set things in perspective.on a personal note: should somebody get fired over this?
well: as we now know from Monte, BC’s aware of this and hurt.
matters are being dealt with as we speak.
that’s all in private of course and a matter of lawyers and so on.referring back to my earlier post:
it’s a work of art per se that’s been soiled by someone.
i think there should be some decent repercussions for this.haha, this one’s funny:
Joy Division â âStillâ
Side A: the chicken won’t stop
Side B: (chicken feet marks)
Side C: (chicken feet marks)
Side D: the chicken stops here[/quote:1wp41zb6][/quote:1wp41zb6]that’s an infamous case indeed and a good one!
i don’t know what you want us (SPfreaks) to do? we have this forum, we’ve discussed the entry, and i’ve stated it will be entered into the database. should we dwell on it? what’s left to say? the rest, right now, is pure speculation, we have to wait for the facts to come out…[/quote:21mbqojn]
that’s why you need to get this out in the open.
either per Twitter or me mailing the guys at the pressing / mastering plant and Monte and the management.
and the media.it’s not about dwelling on a topic.
it’s about trying to find out what happened, when, where and why or how?!the facts won’t come out of thin air if there’s no mention of this to the band or anything.
now, it’s about getting the history straight and put together.
the factual matter is correct; these are the matrix codes in our copies. these are the messages.
next stage: please explain…[/quote:21mbqojn]it is out in the open. monte had notified the band before you had emailed them. that’s how we know billy is offended and more than likely hurt by this. this is his (imo) iconic album as a band, and it’s pissed on by some fuck either at the pressing plant or by whoever was in charge of the reissues to begin with. or, this could be some sort of a joke and billy is in on it. point being, our frontpage article would say:
Hey look at the matrix codes!
FUCK YOU
SUCK MY DICK
LICK MY PUSSY
WE LOVE YOUdo we really want that on our FRONTPAGE? no. do we want it in the collection. ABSOLUTELY.
also, i am not friends with billy, spfreaks is not friends with billy, but i like to think of it as respecting a friends wishes. maybe that’s just me.[/quote:21mbqojn]
respect is a very very big thing in my book.
I’ve always respected BCs wishes, also when it came down to not sharing some recordings for example or not talking about stuff we discussed backstage at meetings. I’ve always honoured those wishes, of course.I’m not saying we should address this on the front page of our site per se.
I was saying we also should not per se be POSITIVE only.
When shit hits the fan so to speak, we above all, as collectors who notice things, are the ones to speak up.The way in which we speak up is a matter of respect.
Therefore I’m NOT advocating a front page article on this matter.
I just can not see why a post on our Twitter page would be NEGATIVE or wrong.Even if BC himself is hurt by this piss take by some schmuck at the pressing plant, that’s the same way I feel taken aback by these messages, even as I’m not totally offended by the remarks themselves, I feel these have ‘soiled’ the landmark record SD is per se. That’s why I think it is a grave matter and unlike Arthur, I think someone SHOULD get a good talking to or get fired over these kind of ‘pranks’ on a piece of art some people have given months and months, blood, sweat and lots of tears over to produce.
With respect to the notion of respect for BC and his feelings: I think there’s a very delicate balance there between the world knowing TSP has these remarks in their run off grooves / matrix codes and/or keeping it private. I am not out on this matter. As a journalist I think differently and like to know how, why, where, when and by whom. That’s why I went out to investigate and checked with the pressing plant / mastering plant et al. And with Monte. He told me he’d check with BC to see if he’d be inclined to give a public statement or comment or a private one and he’d let me know. I will for now not go public with this as I feel it is too embarrassing for the band or BC as we don’t have a public statement from them or the record label. As we speak, I just per chance met the main lady at EMI The Netherlands and she would also try to get some information on this matter for me and asked me not to go public with this until she had gathered more information and details. So I will refrain from anything publically. Still: I think it’s a matter of professional journalism to look into things, get the relevant facts checked, get the comments from the parties involved and then see if what you’ve got it worth publishing, at large or otherwise. In this case I think the research with the label, pressing or mastering plant, per Monto towards the band / BC and so on is the best of courses to follow. Then we can see what comes out of that.
A&R – the master cutter / pressing plant refrains from comments.[/quote:1jf9wrec]
who checked this? that’s a great move. thanks for checking with them, even though nothing came out of it.[/quote:1jf9wrec]I did.
They might come back tonight with a statement a new email just send said.
They’re looking into matters, but it’s kinda tricky I believe for them to address this now to me as I think they need to clear things up for themselves and with their parties; i.e. the band, label, management et al. before they even say something on any kind of record to people like me.
