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new listening comparison…
15 playbacks, back to back…
1. when the strings kick in it’s much louder
2. there’s a tad but more bass, when the band hits
3. the lead acoustic guitar is more bright, *sparkles* even and has a very natural resonance (the wood)
4. second time when the strings kick in, the cello is much more pronounced and duh, actually sounds like a cello…
5. the strings do sound much more natural i.e. not synth-like when compared to SD (original)
6. sustained bass guitar notes towards the final part are really loud and much clearer, you could even make out which notes are played i guess whereas SD is kinda muddy at times.sure, a new mastering job could have done (part of this) but i still belief there were some totally new mixes made from the original takes that is. i’m not claiming this to be another take or including new / unheard takes or parts. it’s just that i am amazed that if Ludwig pulled this off by just doing a new mastering job, the record as a whole and especially this songs, sounds so markedly more sprankling and ‘open’ freuqency-wise. i still think there’s a part in the string arrangement i’ve just never heard before towards the third chorus when the high notes kick in. this might be due to a ‘buried’ loud at any volume original mix or mastering.
btw: the first guitar run down sweep when Quiet kicks into gear is really something out of this world, there they did a sterling job of fixing the muffled blast of the past into a dynamic shift towards real loudness…
although digitally it doesn’t merit my claim, i stil belief this to be a slightly different version…
won this on ebay just now. it’s supposed to have a radio edit of bullet with butterfly wings. i’ve never seen such a thing before. i wonder what it’ll be like.
[/quote:3nr782be]nice one.
i think i’ve heard this one once.
it’s – if i remember correctly – a version of the master mix with some frequencies pumped up so that with the FM modulation / compression the song would still sound as heavy.
same applies to the extremely heavy mix for Cherub Rock Arthur has, made for Mark Goodier of the BBC for Radio play.
although it might be a shortened edit. But i’ve never heard of those for this song.here are some youtube’s…
http://crestfallen.com/2011/12/10/billy … in-lisbon/http://www.ebay.com/itm/320802796707
[/quote:2yyrg8da]indeed! awesome!
How about the video& audio quality of DVD’s?[/quote:212kofp4]
For the Gish dvd: as so old and all… it’s quite OK… i’d say and 7,5 per audio.. somehow the drums are aqwesoe but it just does not feel that the rest comes from the band or something….
The audio is much better than the bootleg I’ve had for ages…!!!
Rhinoceros is amazinly good for example!!! just check the amazing and massive bass ans the snare drum therein!!!—
Basically iy’s a bunch of really metal-hard rocking hippies…
‘Razor’ is the MOST AMAZING VERSION EVER!!!!—
i know this audio only but this one is better per audio and there’s video…
i’ve seen the video at the final show (aftershow)….!
this is an amazing funky and bluesy version!!!!!
Hello Hendrix— Hello Band of Gypsies!!!—For the SD dvd: that one is MAYHEM as per crowdsurfers and the band is not that good there, but the sound quality is a solid 8,3 at least…
The audio is amazingly better than any bootleg of this show!I don’t have the MP set available at the moment, but as far as I can tell the Jesus is the Sun is the same song but with a different mix. Version on Gish deluxe has a lot more reverb in the vocals at least?
Pulseczar was probably included to put as much on the disc as possible?[/quote:1ou7u6hf]
Yep, comparison:
– Jesus is the Sun = the MP version but with a different mix, which is quite logic, but I will explain in person… sometime…
– Pulseczar -> yeah, why? he should have done Jeniffer Ever for example.. I know why not, but still….
also:
it was a good move to reserve my copies…
the record store in Utrecht, The Netherlands said to have had a massive stock and sold out of all SD (deluxe and standard edition) within a couple of hours.
they only had one Gish standard and one deluxe left…so, thing are working out just brilliant for these re-issues…
as for the Gish bonus cd—
01. Starla (2011 mix) -> great new mix, loads of definition, great clarity. Remixed by Kerry Brown and Bjorn Thorsrud.
02. Siva (Peel Sessions) -> the infamous monster version…
no remixing.03. Honeyspider (2011 mix) -> great new mix, very well balanced… remixed by Howard Willing.
04. Hippy Trippy -> a nice little demo for Crush, mixed by Howard Willing.
05. Snail -> live at VPRO Radio, The Netherlands on 920115; very LOUD!!!! no remixing?!
INSANE SOUND PRESSURE LEVELS much better quality than the recording found on MP!!!06. Plume (2011 mix) -> great new mix, loads of definition, massive bass!, remixed by Kerry Brown.
07. Bury Me (2011 mix) -> stunning new mix with superb bass sound! stellar drums too… very tight and choppy in the powerchord part, mixed by Howard Willing.
08. Daydream (old house demo) -> extreme amounts of flanger and echo on voice and guitar, very chimy and dreamlike whispered…, mixed by Howard Willing.
09. Tristessa (single version, 2011 mix) -> ‘we’re ready\" plus countdown by JC at the start!!!, beefed up the bottom end, turned down the treble; sound massive, remixed by Butch Vig.
10. Girl Named Sandoz (Peel Sessions) -> groovy as always…, no remixing.
11. Jesus is the Sun -> apartment demo from 1990… same as on MP I think…, mixed by Howard Willing.
12. Blue (gish sessions demo) -> the acoustic demo, the one NOT on PI…; the one with the bongos; the same as on MP I think… very nice and mellow and understated…, no remixing.
13. Smiley (gish sessions demo) -> seems to be from the same session as the Blue take…. bongos and all, very slow and hushed… same as on MP I think…, no remixing.
14. I Am One (2011 mix) -> the Reall Time Studios version… beefed up and slightly dirtier in the distorted guitar, overall a little bit muddy maybe even, less clear and sparkling than the released version on the demo tape and Limited Potential single… I tend to like the original mix better…,remixed by Howard Willing.
15. Seam (Suffer / apartment demo) -> very trippy and hippy version with cool bongos and heavy bass drum sound… chimy and a nice tambourine… plus some very spacy sounds/samples even… far out…!
on Gish the song seems to fade away in the shade between the massive songs, but on its own in this version it’s very very nice, really cool and very well sung vocals!, mixed by Howard Willing…16. La Dolly Vita (2011 mix) -> the original mix already was a stellar job, not that much going on here in the new mix, apart from the guitars being a bit more hippy and reverby/echolike in the opening half… , remixed by Butch Vig.
17. Pulseczar -> the version found on Earphoria, no remixing. why this is included? no idea… there’s loads more of goodies, but hey, with so much nice stuff going on, it’s just BCs humour i guess, just like Spaced at the end of PI…
18. Drown (alt. guitar solo) -> recorded at Smart Studios with Butch Vig, NOT the one from either the Waterfront Studios or the one played on the Kink FM Radio show ‘The Night of The Smashing Pumpkins’.
—
also:
edit on the SD bonus cd:
STP and Moleasskiss don’t seem to be the same takes as found on MP…
—
also:
both re-issues mastered by:
Erven Göknar at Capitol (and on SD bonus tr 15 + 17 by Bob Ludwig at Gateway).
so they didn’t go with the trusted all time mastering by Howie Weinberg at Masterdisk this time…!make sure to get the vinyls!!!
– very heavy pressing
– insane sound
– brilliant new mixes with amazing clarity and definition
– glossy sleeves and insert sheet
– SD -> extra inner sleeves with nice print on heavy stock
– Gish -> gatefold sleeve!
– SD -> 2LP
– Gish -> 1LP
– 180 gram virgin vinyl pressings—
deluxe editions:
– very heavy boxes
– nice inserts
– heavy stock card sleeves for the discs
– track listing sheet
– typo of Down on the back of SD in stead of Drown
– SD -> postcards with the lyrics as written on the original edition
– Gish -> postcards with very nice photos
– download code for Barb Wire and the 8-track Drown demo
– nice essays and track notes by BC on both—
still have to watch the dvd’s, introductions on both by Joe Shanahan by the way!
—
Gish bonus cd review coming up…
edit – Apathy’s Last Kiss is another mix compared to the one on the Today CDEP.
also:
i just got the vinyls and deluxe sets and am in awe; these are amazing!
the sound quality is just stellar on both albums.
still need to check out the rest…i just got the SD one–
the album sounds MASSIVE…!!!
super super super clear… very very crisp!
and: MASSIVE still…
not per se a wall of sound, but very detailed, already very clear in CR…!—
as for the SD bonus:
01. Pissant -> I would say another take, with loads of echo and flanger, but still a banger…
02. Siamese Dream -> TOTALLY different song to the Disarm 7: B-side; oh my god how they butchered this sister to HKK into the b-side version?! amazing song, great Pumpkins-jam! THE TRANSITION BETWEEN GISH AND SD as far as I am concerned…!!!
)) Amazing work there… Pumpkins-prime!!!! with LOADS of Hendrix in there, just listen to the very end… (BC is SO right in his interviews on the re-issues— imagine this (and more to come and Pissant!) on SD…?! it would not have worked in any way!)
03. STP -> BC liked to call these songs: \"riff-a-thons\"… another bridge between old school heavy metal and blues and rock and all TSP were back then… Basically it’s kinda like Geek USA which is great because of the break downs and the drumming, but as per the riff(s) it’s pretty simple…. I’ve always filed STP as a percursor to Geek USA…
04. F+B -> the song is there, but this is an amazing version!!! very raw and ‘live’ I think and no vocals…! great solo work too… the band as a thing in its prime with guitar duels and all…
05. Luna -> a demo???? a lot of echo and reverb on both voice and guitar… a nice, very nice one, per me: preferred to the album version….
06. Quiet -> MASSIVE-rock mayhem… sounds like something not used on Vieuphoria as per the mix, which is pretty bad and muddy…TSP gives it their best, but my idea is they never ever got the impact of Quiet quite right on stage, nor here, but this take is getting pretty close…
07. Moleasskiss -> another transitional between Gish and SD…. just imagine this, HKK, F+B, Pissant and SD being on tjhe album and it would have been an epic fail… anoter riff-a-thon from the Pumpkins-vaults… a great ‘jam’, but indeed: a no-song per se…
08. Hello Kitty Kat -> the NOT destroyed mix and per thus: another groover from the Pumpkins files…I can just NOT imagine this on the album… Amazing version though!!!
09. Today -> dirty grungy version…. slightly slower, really grunge per se…
10. Never Let Me Down Again -> another mix? sound quite a lot better than the version on the Rocket 7\" or CDS…
11. Apathy’s Last Kiss -> as per the Japanese Today CDEP.
12. Ache -> Silverfuck before the massive Butch Vig production and everything, just the band having a splendid go…!!! Amazing track!!! Amazingly upfront bass guitar too!!!
13. USA -> an amazing jam-like song, which, AFAIC, could be a precursor to MCIS as per: Ruby for example… something like Plume-extended…
14. USSR -> why not? nobody knows. this could have been, together with USA that is, an amazing end to Silverfuck (live)
15. Spaceboy -> pretty lame to include this; a nice version without the strings, but basically the album take….
16. Rocket -> the intro is amazingly cool and exciting as is the rest of the song, much more ‘rocking’ than the album version… to me: the preferred version, this is!
17. Disarm -> no strings, basically the same as the album, very nice…
18. Soma -> no mega production, basically the ‘same’ as the album… but with a different break/solo part… DIRTY distortion after the mellow part…
—
all in all:
there are way more gems in the archives I have and all…
still…
the SD one gives a great look inside the musical growth of the epic album….
—the following days I will post a review of the vinyls. And of Gish.
and the first reviews are in with a solid 10 for Siamese Dream! – >
a lot of intimate and very important personal words by BC…
yes; he did write Disarm and Today when he was down and out…
that was in 1992…hearing BC now in this interview makes it all come together and it all makes total ‘sense’…
Ashley Newton would be a perfect match for somebody to get a CDR of this song on the day of completion. Imagine the track arriving at Virgin and someone making this for her… that’s very well possible. [/quote:1iccz57z]
Ashley is a guy, actually
[/quote:1iccz57z]Right, oops…
11/09 Untitled send out by Q101
(check envelope date http://www.spfreaks.com/default.aspx?pa … &item=2441)
(but on that date Smashing Pumpkins was travelling from UK/IE to South Africa for 2 gigs!?)
[/quote:3mz2vb1c]3 gigs (Centurion, Durban and Cape Town) – would love to get audio recordings of any of these shows…sigh[/quote:3mz2vb1c]
me too as i’m still very curious to know how these dates went down with the audience(s) over there…
i guess it must have been massive and BC said so, but to hear it is quite something else…the South-African, South-American and Portugal shows are still amongst the favorites for TSP i know.
now, that would be a good one to release properly…Ashley might refer to Ashley Newton, around that time a Virgin executive/co-president, and later Vice-President of Virgin Records America, Inc. Don’t think so, but who knows… Just some quick research I did on the name Ashley combined with Virgin Records.
But I updated the Q101 release of Untitled already with the info provided above. If someone doesn’t agree, please say so.[/quote:1svwiwes]
Quite so. Not that many people would have been given access to this very song before the premiere.
Their were also copyright issues to be solved, so a date stamped copy sent to the record label would be a good idea to secure some rights in the recording.I do not recall a Virgin rep or somebody by the name of Ashley in the band’s company/crew at that moment in time.
Ashley Newton would be a perfect match for somebody to get a CDR of this song on the day of completion.
Imagine the track arriving at Virgin and someone making this for her… that’s very well possible.Now the question is: is it an MP3 source or not?
Because: the track was done in Chicago, BC was in Chicago, Virgin is in LA right?
You would not get a finished master to Virgin in time.
Unless: you send over an mp3 or something…
