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@ 1 – let’s say it’s legit and true and will be out there in due time…
@ 2 – as for the \"Greta Garbo\" tape: NO! > someone else then BC has a tape with these songs.
@ 3 – maybe, indeed, Len will be able to provide some info…
@ 4 – ‘Hope’ is true and valid and real, period.
@ 5 – NEC has been around for several years; quite quite some years now!
@ 6 – Frank’s work is VERY valuable! – but, PLEASE!!! – get your own record straight in terms of time line(s) and more…!!!
@ 7 – RER’s memories??? – well: proof??? – then we’ll see…
@ 8 – NO! – BC does NOT have all the old stuff. if you’d read the boards and all correctly you’d known i’ve the first ever TSP song on tape because of researching like a mad-man for years and years… plus: I gave this take/recording to BC as he didn’t have it himself, even!!!
@ 9 – Yes! – there’s a lot to be found and researched. I for me am working on it. For years.
@ 10 – Still – what doesn’t ‘HELP’ is many peeps bugging people and such… just… trust me: there’s more, there will be more… what’s there to be had from Ron and Len and those peeps; it’s there… there’s more… just: give me the time and room and all… if there’s like several peeps coming in all is lost for sure…
so:
– enjoy the music from the early tapes
– tapes themselves? – sorry: no chance… those are gone and sold.
– the tape with the first TSP-song? – sorry: no chance… it’s secure here, with me. (even BC has only a cdr copy take of it now)
– please please please check ALL boards and more first!!! before you engage in action towards certain individuals!!!!
– these people have been contacted over and over, you’re not the first.
– check everywhere and when there’s a new thing, go for it… BUT!!!— make sure there’s a new thing!An all new demo tape is out there and I’ve heard several parts of it via the phone.
We might get this, one day.
Prodding doesn’t help as this is an effort of over 5 years of research getting closer still…So:
stay tuned and check out what’s out there.Also:
an actual The Marked tape would fetch???
> USD 1.500 – 2.000If you’re willing to pay something like that….
Go ahead and make an offer…
To the people owning the The Marked tapes….To me:
it’s not about the actual tape(s)…
it’s about the music…Therefore:
enough said in this/your topic.I’m slightly disgusted, even, to be honest.
Why?
As- for me it’s all about the music, per se.
Upfront in all my research and all thru all the years.
So missing in your post(s).Disgusted; my final post herein.
My heart felt thanks to all your support. Thank you!
For the Dutch speaking people, below is the I.M. I wrote for Arjen.
He will be cremated tomorrow; may he rest in peace.
Thanks, Sven.
—
Zondagavond, vaste prik; rond de klok van negen uur gaat de radio aan. De volgende drie uur zijn voor Bob en Arjen, voor X-Rated. Een ontdekkingsreis is het door de krochten van de muziek, vaak onbekend, nooit onbemind. De heren draaien geen plaatjes om het plaatjesdraaien.
Heilige missie is misschien het beste woord; de drive om obscure klanken voor het voetlicht te brengen spat van hun enthousiaste stemmen af. Van duistere dancetracks tot de meest vervoerende ambient met uitstapjes naar martiale folk en gierende industrial wijzen Bob en Arjen de weg naar acts als Coil, Current 93, Black Sun Productions, Tony Wakeford en vele, vele anderen. Met steevast tussendoor, door Arjen vaak fluisterend geïntroduceerd, met zijn kenmerkende en precies juiste gevoel voor dramatiek, historische opnamen van veelal overleden dichters. Stemmen uit vervlogen tijden, gelukkig bewaard voor het nageslacht. Arjens stem zal niet langer de zondagavonden vullen. Zijn nalatenschap is peilloos diep en onmetelijk groot.
Arjen Grolleman, de stem die miljoenen Nederlanders kennen als voice-over voor de RTL-groep, was een radiomaker in hart, nieren en elke vezel van zijn lichaam. Een man met een missie die hij met zijn geesteskind Kink FM verwezenlijkte. De man die de alternatieve muziek in Nederland een thuis gaf. Niet alleen in zijn eigen programma’s, niet alleen in de meest obscure en ondoorgrondelijke wegen van het muzikale spectrum.
Ook en vooral doordat hij met tomeloze inzet Kink FM tot hét radioplatform voor de alternatieve muziek maakte; doorheen heel de zender lag de drive het ongehoorde hoorbaar te laten zijn voor het oprapen; het schijnbaar onmogelijke mogelijk te maken. Mét ruimte voor bijzondere plannen met uitvoering. Een zes uur durende radiomarathon live-uitzending over alleen The Smashing Pumpkins, op prime-time? Arjen Grolleman tekende ervoor en was zelf misschien wel de meest enthousiaste luisteraar. Die avond, na de uitzending, dimde Arjen het licht in de Kinkstudio. De computer nam als jukebox de honneurs waar voor de playlist. Arjen rommelde wat en legde een stuk vinyl op de draaitafel. Coil. Dat moesten we ook maar eens luisteren, vooral in de ‘after hours’. En de verhalen kwamen al snel, in sneltreinvaart, vol anekdotes, feitjes en steeds weer dat ongebreidelde plezier en die diepgevoelde passie. Met een grijns van oor tot oor staat Arjen in de studio wanneer Machinist & Industrial Passage op oorverdovend volume in de grote ruimte ernaast van leer trekken. Live on the air. Elke keer dat de drone aan intensiteit wint richting orkaankracht, groeit Arjens genieten in de fonkeling in zijn pretogen. Zo’n volume in een radiostudio? Met nummers van zo’n tien minuten of meer? Meer graag en volmondig ja, is Arjens antwoord. Arjens Kink FM als geestdriftig bewijs van zijn missie in slechts twee voorbeelden van vele.
Verslagen en verbijsterd staren naar de televisie. Daarop de teletekstpagina die beweert dat Arjen Grolleman op woensdag 20 januari plotseling overleden is. Hij werd maar 37 jaar oud. Trefzekere woorden, keiharde feiten, maar het bericht wil niet waar zijn noch worden. Een overval op de emoties is het; zo onverwacht, schokkend en stuitend dat die uitblijven, lang. Om na ongeloof en verbijstering bikkelhard toe te slaan.
En al spoedig buitelen herinneringen over elkaar heen en blijkt veel muziek direct of indirect gekoppeld aan Arjen. Coil, natuurlijk. Current93 en Xabec. Xabec dat omnivoor Arjen toen we voor het NCF in X-Rated geïnterviewd werden en optredende acts voorstelden bleek nog niet te kennen. Een onbekendheid die meteen omsloeg in jubelstemming bij de eerste kennismaking met de Seelenschiffklanken. Ongeloof, woordeloos ongeloof en verslagenheid wisselen stuivertje met gevoelens van grote dankbaarheid voor de muzikale deuren die Arjen heeft geopend, wegen die hij heeft gewezen en zijn onwaarschijnlijke grote hart voor muziek en initiatief; energie voor het máken, het doen plaatsvinden. Zoals hij deed met Kink FM, zoals het NCF hem kent als enthousiaste ‘believer’ in onze missie.
Arjen Grolleman heeft mensen op het spoor gezet zelf radiomaker te worden, kansen geboden en deuren geopend. Mensen kregen of hielden geloof in hun muzikale werk of concertavond(en) doordat Arjen het letterlijk liet horen.
Arjen liet je nieuwe muziek horen; was voor velen de wegwijzer in de evolutie van de muziek. Alles kan en niets is onmogelijk. Oeverloze passie en mateloze realiserende kracht; idee geboren, vorm gemaakt: doen! Het ondenkbare en schijnbaar onmogelijke is blijkbaar mogelijk: na pas 37 jaar is Arjen er niet meer.
Het is niet alleen de herinnering die blijft. Het is die energie en die stem uit honderdduizenden die blijft resoneren en waarmee Arjen tot in lengte van dagen blijft voortpraten. Dankjewel Arjen daarvoor. Ik mis je.
you can conclude from that google groups conversation that dave didn’t have that tape at the time he wrote that, nor had he ever heard it.
as far as i know, none of these greta garbo tapes are available.
i also find ron roesing not very reliable as a source. he might have a hidden agenda. i mean, no offence, maybe he’s telling the truth, but he’s been saying a lot, and i haven’t seen anything ever coming from it.
i’ll upload that tape of the marked when i feel like it. this involves walking upstairs and looking for the cd, so i doubt i’ll feel like it today. maybe tomorrow, although tuesday is more likely.[/quote:3fb7ohtv]
@ 1 – DA indeed went on knowledge from others when he made that post.
@ 2 – the ‘rumoured’ "Greta Garbo" – tape has not surfaced and as far as I know is not out there: indeed.
@ 3 – RER made a lot of money off fans by selling cdrs of the early tapes he had. those actual tapes were sold and bought by a collective of fans years ago. at least all the demos from The Marked that is. I believe the NEC songs RER has/had were included therein too. that would imply RER has sold the actual tapes by now. this I know quite sure.
@ 4 – RER does have some valid claims as there are others I’m still entertaining and researching. there’s a lot of hazy history in the early years still to be cleared up, yes. I’ve been researching those years for some 10 years now and am getting closer to a full picture, especially since I’ve heard a demo from yet another band before TSP with BC in it… to be continued, no doubt.
yes, that’s ok with me.
just have to see what’s the best way to go about this…
we’ll arrange something
thnx will check it out…
are you sure this is OK?
i mean: are the people to whom these watermarked cds were made out/sent/delivered OK with you ripping this?
can’t these rips still be traced back to these people?i of course do know these were/are watermarked first and foremost to prevent any advance-leaking of the material…
then again and nonetheless: at least as far as i know and understand, the non-ripping/copying/spreading ‘promise’ also extends beyond the release date…
as these rips could be traced back to the original intended party still, this might not be a big deal pertaining this very cd/release…
it might not look that good with respect to the label for any future releases…
even: the ‘penalty’ would still be valid, i think…OK-
don’t pass it on, give it to a collector, sell it then?
well: i’ve got several watermarked promos myself. some made out to me. some to collegues.
i’ve passed along rips/copies. with the EXPLICIT mention NOT to spread etc.
plus: i made sure to whom i gave this.
i would NEVER rip a watermarked cd i got from a collegue.i’m not out on the issue of selling the cd and thus it being OK or not to rip the cd…
personally: i’d not do it or: would not put it out there online.
in this case: i just hope the original person will not get any trouble. that’s all.
(i just remember clearly when some ueber-rare recordings came into the hands of some collectors. bc then asked them to not spread those to widely and to be \"picky\". this was above all with the forum backlash shit and all in mind. those who’d appreciate the recordings of course would do so and were welcome to get these recordings. with these explicit ‘rules’ stuff was spread in a very small circle. the same happened when we found ‘I Fall’. i myself too made the ‘mistake’ of giving the copy to someone, with the explicit wish to not spread it onwards and within a month’s time it was all over the place online… so: there you go… still: personally i hold my word and value promises and hold wishes and ‘demands’ from for example the man bc himself in high esteem.)
cool cool cool!
i’ve always really loved this release. even before i owned a copy…!
there was no obvious reason for the band to release a limited edition, still they did, hand numbered even, plus: including a bonus 7\" single, even… for the US market too…!
as the US didn’t get these b-sides included on Pisces Iscariot, i’ve always found this a very cool edition/gesture…
plus: it’s an awesome release too per the tracks
congrats in securing a copy!enjoy!
maybe these were not marked per se as a promo?[/quote:34ptm22i]
I guess so. I have a signed "promo" CD of Live from 1994, the album Throwing Copper. It does not contain any promotional info, but Andre, the guy that gave it to me as a present, who is an ex-colleague and music lover too, told me the following story.He worked in a little high profile bass building company back then, when the band Live came in his shop and the bass player talked with him a long time. (Andre is a bass player himself too). He bought 1 of the basses even, and give him their first album, with signatures as a present. At that moment the album was not out yet, and the band gave copies of the new pressing away during their tour. This is how I remember the story…[/quote:34ptm22i]
indeed!!!—
being a music critic/writer/journalist myself, i’ve recieved/been given numerous albums promotionally, which were totally UNMARKED!!!—
sometimes, these were ‘chipped’: i.e.: there was a small piece chipped from the case and liner…
sometimes, these featured crossed out barcodes…
every so often, these were just the standard, commercial release version(s)…i really believe, with TSP exploding in popularity, LOADS and LOADS albums were sent out promotionally which were just culled from the normal standard commercial batch/run…
maybe: someone chipped/clipped some or crossed out the barcode or whatever…
maybe: in the US, someone stamped some copies with the ‘promotional’ stamp…for me:
if there’s a copy WITH the ‘promotion only’ stamp…
if a copy is found or presented…
i’d say this is really rare!!!…why?
as promotion for SD was at first pretty standard…
so: these true stamped promotional copies would not have totalled in the thousands to begin with…
as CR took off and of course: as Today became a smash hit single…
things changed and i can imagine, thousands of albums of SD were sent out to press and radio and all: NON STAMPED!!!… get them out ASAP!!!-refer to:
the SD-sampler is quite rare… so are most SD-advance promo items.
post-SD release proper, post-Today release proper: the promotional scheme ‘awakes’/picks-up!!!so:
i still think the stamped promo for SD is legit and OK and genuine…
i also think it’s quite rare.
i also think it’s an advance(d) promotional cd.
i also think these numbers could be rather low to quite/very low…only when TSP ‘EXPLODED’…
Virgin went to promote the album in full!!!
thus: massive amounts sent out to press and radio and the like…
no need, no worry for a stamp or whatever: get the *shit* out there!!!well-
that’s what i just tried to say…
even nowadays i expierence the same deal!…for example:
the album ‘The Back Room’ by Editors…
there was some kinda buzz and NME-hype around Editors…
they’d just released two 7" singles on an indie label then…
they’d played quite a lot in the UK…
Editors then came over to The Netherlands to play the London Calling Festival…
i saw them there in a very very very small room which was packed beyond belief!!!…
plus!: Editors played beyond any belief, too!!! that show was massive!!!, period…!
now: upon reviews and the word-of-mouth-thing: Editors was getting ‘hot’ here in The Netherlands…
‘The Back Room’ as a proper release was far from due, then…
so: i got an officially made and screen-printed cdr with a printed insert sent to me for review purpouses…
of course!: it had to be NOW (then) and quickly!!!—
i did my review, so did my collegues… and: Editors went on and on and on…
>>>
this just goes to prove my fact in that sometimes things planned in promotion or something just move differently and how labels adjust to the given moments and factors…
for: with Editors, i KNOW for a FACT, the basic idea was to gradually ‘bring’ the band to the non-UK audiences via the singles and then the debut album and then: onwards…
for: with Editors, i KNOW for a FACT, this ONE show at the London Calling Festival changed this plan totally, at least for: The Netherlands!!!… hence: immediate promotional copies of the debut album sent out… hence: following the massive response from the press and the audience too: numerous shows… and: taking The Netherlands as a fertile growing ground/stepping stone/whatever…back to TSP:
– my Editors-CDR per se IS quite rare…
– same deal: i got a promotional cdr for: The Long Blondes debut album, on cdr, too… same deal: The Long Blondes played the London Calling Festival and were destined to get ‘bigger’ (though: never went… unfortunately: especially as their frontlady is a true treat!)… this cdr went out to the press and to me, WAY!!! before the actual record came out!!!… therefore: that very cdr contains non-mastered, pre-master(ed) and/or rough-mixed tracks or rough mixes of tracks…!- still: it just HAD to get out there!!! for promotion’s sake!!!…
now: this cdr/these cdr’s (i’ve got a 5-track and a full album pre-master/rough cdr, haha) is/are ‘rare’…
– with: Editors > there’s some value there, commercially…
– with: The Long Blondes > maybe not; still: collecting-wise those cdrs, too, are quite collectable…SO: as for TSP—
to me:
– a copy of a USA release(d) SD album with a ‘promotional only’ stamp would be quite rare-
– would in fact, be: most likely: an advance album promotional copy…
– thus: sent to press or media before the release date…to me:
– following the ‘logic’ as with Editos and The Long Blondes (above)…
– after the release of SD and following the EXPLOSION of TSP…
– the stuff just had to be promo-ed out ASAP!!!…
– NOW they make cdr promo like with Editors and The Long Blondes, even from/of non-final masters…
– then: they just took commercial release SD copies and sent those out!!!…
– fuck the stamp(s)!- get it out there!
– like with Editors or The Long Blondes: fuck the master or not!- get it out there!
– so: Virgin just went on to promo SD out with the standard release version…!
(heck!: i personally even got ZEITGEIST as a promo sent to me!!!— this was the book version, with press-release and all; with the barcode crossed-out with a big black felt pen… so…)happy hunting for the SD version WITH the STAMP!!!
I sorta tend to agree with Easy on this one. Sven has a point, but we’re talking about a promotional CD here, which is meant to be made cheaply for mass distribution, albeit, not too large, as you’d want to make a profit from the real CD.
Anyway, there exists a 5 trk sampler CD for Siamese Dream, where is the full album promo that has been rumoured to exist all these years? For fucks sake, it wouldn’t be hard to just make a copy yourself, gold lettering or silver or whatever color and just say it’s the real deal.
At this point, I don’t think it exists, because it’s not like we’re talking 10 or less here. We’re talking at least a 1,000 pressed by Virgin.
Also rumoured is a Gish US promo CD, which I also believe does not exist.
My opinion is that Pisces and Mellon Collie came out, right around the time spfc.org went online (correct me if I’m wrong), and it was assumed some US promotional stamping was done for SD and Gish, however, I think over time, this assumption has been proven false. Not a big leap of faith to assume these were made, however, I think it’s safe to say, it’s wrong.[/quote:k0v38h3n]
1 – i think the 5 track promo was mostly used as an advance promo.
2 – surely there were full album promotional copies and review copies for SD. my guess is these were the standard release albums, which may or may not have been stamped or stickered with promotional information or something.
3 – for press and radio and all, these would have totalled quite high numbers i think. surely when the album kicked off in popularity. using the commercial and standard release version for this reason and not make a promotional version proper, maybe due to time contraints, as many copies had to be made quite fast when demand from press and radio kicked into gear. this might mean promotional copies sent out total thousands across the globe.
4 – maybe these were not marked per se as a promo?
5 – some must have been; SPFC took loads of info from DA’s txt-based discography and his entries were quite well researched and verified. so: i think at least one copy must have popped up somewhere, back then. when DA made his discography. happy hunting
no- never seen a copy.
[…]
and-
while on topic:what’s YOUR personal MOST WANTED collecting item???[/quote:17hzjhh8]
that’s not on topic, sven. it’s called "hijacking a thread".[/quote:17hzjhh8]sorry, it wasn’t meant as such, just a case of curiousity amongst and with fellow collectors.
je m’excuse.no- never seen a copy.
depends on the provenance of the info mentioned…
the ‘GISH’ gold disc was disputed for a very long time too, for example.
and: to make matters even worse, to some extent that is:
http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/disc … scog_id=32
this release was mentioned pretty early on, with a lot of rumours and all…
sketchy information was all to go on then.
several dedicated die-hard collectors (including yours truly!) went about and researched their asses off to find out this in fact was indeed a genuine artefact/release! finally also confirmed by the band.
still: we’ve never ever seen a single copy of this box anywhere.
the band doesn’t have one and even going through the paces with the record stores and people who used to work there (yes, I went as far as searching out ex-employees and cold-calling them!) nothing…for me, personally…
OK: i own the demo tapes and some quite cool and unique items…
THIS… this: http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/disc … scog_id=32
would in fact be one of the most desired and therefore valuable items out there for TSP.having said this…
personally most highly valued items, as of yet not included in my collection, that is:
– a true copy of the Mashed Potatoes sets-
– a copy of MII-
– this box set…!!!—and: this box set even ranks the highest to me as a collector!!!
it’s just the aspect of the infamous lore and rumours and all and the fact no one has ever seen one and all…i’ve held MII in my very own hands.
i can listen to Mashed Potatoes.
i have the tape featuring the very first ever TSP song.MII > we all have heard now.
MII > having seen and held and felt the genuine thing… plus: we all have heard it now…
MII > surely!: i’d be over the moon of moons to own a genuine copy of this set. and i’m working on getting one from the moment of release, even. not by paying tens of thousands of dollars, not by trying to pry one from one of the people given a set…MP > we all have heard now.
MP > BC told me there was no ‘box set’ ever in the first place; just some cds for the band and close-ones…
MP > BC’s copy, later, for DA, might in fact be just like the initial one(s)…I Fall > we all have heard now.
I Fall > according to BC’s own account of things, this is the very first recorded instance of a TSP-song.
I Fall > BC himself did in fact no longer have this in his archive.
>>>
on a related note:
BC didn’t have an alternate studio take of Drown either!!!
this i presented to him during the 2000 tour, backstage and at a following show, JC and BC had checked out the recording and couldn’t pin-point the exact moment of recording themselves, still: they were quite sure, they themselves didn’t have same-said version…
>>>
I Fall > the actual cassette tape featuring this song is my most precious of items in my collection; the one to cap things off, the MAJOR cherry on top of the whipped cream on top of the cake, so to speak…still…
this box set thing has eluded me and with me several truely dedicated collectors and researchers for years and years and years.
this box set is genuine and verified and all.
though: no pictures present!!!
as a researching collector, this bugs me.this box is my most wanted item…!
even just a picture of it!…and-
while on topic:what’s YOUR personal MOST WANTED collecting item???
the assumed quite limited amount pressed, at least to me, follows from the fact 7\" singles from quite popular and thus commercially ‘happening’ acts nowadays oftentimes turn out to be rather to very low in number/quantity.
TSP at the moment of release was commercially no ‘happening’ act, to say the very least.
this was the second single of an album which didn’t sell great, to any commercial standard.
the Tarantula-single failed to make quite an impact commercially too.
the market for singles is downright totally down the drain; especially in terms of cd singles; for the UK market the vinyl still holds some ground, mostly due to collector’s value(s).my personal economic and commercial logic has it that it’s not quite that inconcievable for this release to have been kept quite low in quantity.
highly commercially interesting singles for TSP in the high times of SD clocked in at 5.000 copies (or a little bit more,maybe, for Disarm)…
i’d be very surprised if this single was pressed to that amount.
given the ‘relative scarcity’ in shops here in Holland (normally well stocked due to great import channels with the UK), i’d guess this was made to max. 2.000 copies for the UK and the same for the US, maybe less even for the US as the UK vinyl market is much much stronger.
for a release in these pressing figures to feature two different masters and pressings, this does remain quite odd to my taste. ok: the 1979 mixes 12\" was pressed in even lower numbers and was also split as per territory.
maybe in fact, the only reason IS a territorial issue of manufacturing, import/export, whatever to explain this hassle for just some couple of thousand (if that!) vinyl singles.
needless to say perhaps: the single failed to make quite an impact or dent in the charts.
somehow, i really feel this was to be expected and was indeed expected. which therefore begs the question as to why all the hassle with even two different vinyl pressings of this single for a song taken from a commercially failing record by an act failing to address a new audience commercially…?the colour (red vs. purple) is directly linked to the origin (us vs. uk).[/quote:sw4kiq7b]
agreed, that’s perfectly clear, indeed.and it’s not so weird to have a different pressing for us and uk. it’s happened before, and also for limited vinyl releases. check out the 1979 mixes 12" for example. it was released in the us and in the uk, and both releases have a different rpm.
my theory is that it’s more common in the us to release 33 rpm vinyl singles. and in the uk 45 rpm vinyl singles are the norm.[/quote:sw4kiq7b]
which would be odd. i just can’t think of a valid reason for different rpms across these territories…
i can understand a 7" @ 33rpm to fit a longer time, but this fits perfectly on either speeds.
i checked some of my books on vinyl collecting and online sources, but was unable to find any hard rule for 33 rpm for US singles. as a matter of fact; most US pressings seem to adhere to the 45rpm speed.either way, if the single gets a vinyl release in both uk and us, it’s only normal they have unique pressing plates. this has always been this way. (if this wasn’t the case, the vinyl is normally pressed in one country, and then maybe exported.)
check out the siamese dream vinyls, for an example of this: the little bit of talking between spaceboy and silverfuck is on side 3 on the us release, but on side 4 on the uk release. (or was it the other way around?)[/quote:sw4kiq7b]
of course two different pressing plates are not unique for split territory releases.
i was just wondering as to the why of two releases. this release was quite limited i estimate.
same as the 1979 mixes 12" indeed. i find it a little bit strange in fact to produce split releases for these quite limited editions.
therefore indeed: i wonder why there wasn’t just one pressing made, including subsequent import/export.i just never noticed the difference in the SD vinyls. thanks for pointing that one out!
I compared the two tracks with every known version of Machina II, and Real Love also to the version that was released on Rotten Apples.
I easily came to the conclusion that both tracks on your cd-r are sourced from the "Virgin promo" version of Machina II. The only big difference is that the very beginning of Cash Car Star seems to be missing on your cd-r. (Or is it at the end of the previous track, maybe?)
Anyway, this doesn’t help us any further if we’re discussing how "real" this cd-r is. If it actually was a Virgin promo, it makes sense that they’d use the same source they used for the Machina II promo cd-rs. On the other hand, this doesn’t prove anything: anyone can have downloaded the Virgin promo source at some point during the last years and created his own little cd-r…
Could be both, really.
My main issue with this cd-r is that it doesn’t make much sense to me.Can you share a rip of Untitled maybe? I wonder what that track looks like.[/quote:2xv8ijqy]
from this, is it correct to conclude the tracks are NOT MP3-sourced? (as you can clearly tell from the cut-off point in frequencies)…
personally and only by my gut feeling, this cd seems quite odd to me…
MII was released and Virgin made some in-house promo’s, all sourced off the webmaster’s copy of the vinyl set.
Untitled was only released per se the eve of the penultimate show. the physical commercial release wasn’t available until fall a year later.
This: http://spfreaks.com/default.aspx?page=C … S&item=457 infamous release made total sense as this promo was released in the marketing campaign for the GH release.
the tracks on this promotional cd make total sense.i just can’t see any reason to put together these five tracks. not the moment in time to do it, nor the reason why? the more as i suspect the mix-down of the released Untitled version would not have been available to Virgin AFTER the approval of the final mix and mastering. thus: AFTER this release: http://spfreaks.com/default.aspx?page=IMGVIEW&item=2141 that release/masterdisk acetate disc is clearly dated.
if and when the version of Untitled on this very 5-track promo is the same as the commercially released version, i just cannot see why Virgin would pair this track with four MII songs.
if this is a different version of Untitled on this very 5-track promo is NOT the same, this might be quite an interesting release, as for the Untitled version. then it might from late 2000. then and there including 4 tracks from MII would make sense, i guess.
let’s see what we can find out…
exciting stuff…1-
i guess RAZOR can’t be mistaken…
i’d say it’s this show:
http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=27
(mislabeled on the tape therefore…)
(all the as of then unknown album song titles kinda match up with the featured ones, too – which is quite funny as for the same songs, on the b-side, the correct titles are given!, even!, go figure!!!)2-
as for the b-side…
the segue from Tristessa through these song was standard for the 1991 tour.
i can only dig up one show opening with Tristessa as Rocket was the most current opener.
http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?tour_id=110
though, that said, Rocket might just have been cut from this recording.
which would make some sense, considering this bootleg tape might have been somewhat geared up and made to at least to some extent cash in on the possible chance of the Sub Pop Tristessa single making the rounds on the radio or something…however…
i believe we’re dealing with these two shows here.
bootleg tape for sure.
interesting to see, because it’s a bootleg cassette…
nothing more, but still, rather \"cute\"…hoge vijf![/quote:2wmtqck3]
These days, while doing research on the early shows of the Smashing Pumpkins (remember that unknown 1991 US Tour gig and recordings…), and on that 1992 Paard poster (to check if it is genuine, and it is), I also came into contact with the Smashing Pumpkins’ Tour Manager of the early Nineties. Well, with his girlfriend actually, that claims that her current boyfriend was the Tour Manager back then of the Smashing Pumpkins. I’ve asked her if I could have an interview with her guy, about the early days, and about being on the road with the Smashing Pumpkins. Should be an interesting article, right! Hopefully I will hear from them this weekend again. Keep you posted.
[/quote:2wmtqck3]We talked about this, this Sunday Arthur!: this is way cool stuff!!!
I’m very excited to see if this will work out and if he’s willing to answer some questions. Back in the days I’ve emailed quite a lot with Mike Po for example and he shared a lot of great stories (and put those on his site too!). Some goes for example, for: Ron Roesing, Dale Meiners, Matt Walker and some others…
Just like the interview you did with John over at the Melkweg venue, this one could in fact yield some quite amazing stories!!!(by the way: i’m currently working with the editorial team of one of the magazines i write for to try and secure an interview with JC, on his current work(s) and ‘This’… plus: of course, then, TPS v.2.0 and leaving the band and all… nothing set in stone yet though, but we’re making progress there…
)whoa Sven, this is like a joke thread for starters and i’m pretty sure it was probably a joke they just happened to both be there post on TMZ. i watch that show and read that site all the time. they do that. and even if it wasn’t i don’t care that much. this is kind of a sarcastic joke thread. yeah.
hahaha, funnies.[/quote:2aqqj1w7]it’s not that i didn’t take this as a joke-thread…
it’s not like i don’t think this paparazzi pic might just be a coincidence or something…
it’s just that you/we know TSP does check sites and forums. as you see HipstersUnited is even featured on prime position on the TSP-site now. and yes, HU does mention the photo, but does so briefly and with due irony and wit.
i just don’t think it looks good on SPFreaks or something to dabble in paparazzi shizzle… not even with remarks as to discard an even really really really tentative form of something whatsoever in any way between BC and miss Simpson at first face value upon this one pic.
that’s the main issue i have.
plus: as said above, i really feel like BC’s private live really is none of our business, not with miss Simpson, not with whomever, whatever, whenever. when he himself or any ‘they’ themselves deem it right to express something, that’s up to him or them. till then: i’d love to see our focus on the fact of the matter which is the music, per se.
why then, this diatribe? well: just to once make a point about this, ’cause i can see this derail into realms we don’t wanna nor need to go or be.
so:
keep it funny all you will of course.
and:
no harm done in any true humour, of course.just keep the respect. that’s all.
> remember: we have seen one or some pics of JC and his family and that’s that. family man, no more, no less, taken for granted; just taken for the fact of the matter.
same here: one pic, BC leaving a hotel (?) or something right after miss Simpson and that’s that. no more, no less, taken for granted; just taken for the fact of the matter.sorry: i just really really highly feel for and about respecting the private lives of performers; ‘stars’ like BC even more so. sorry.
first: i don’t like paparazzi stuff… period. people’s privacy is a dear thing to be respected. that’s just my personal stance, though.
now: BC’s been with C. Love (and other, presumably?)…
then a museum curator, a world-famous photographer…
in a way: arts or around or something, with these ladies.following Yelena Yemchuk there’s been talk of miss ‘Tequila’ and others…
now: miss Simpson…as much and as far as i am concerned: i am one to judge BC on the merits of his artistic output.
when he was with Chris he made great work(s); same goes for the Yelena period.then and there: his private live was non of my business, nor did this colour his work(s) or anything, back then nor nowadays.
as for the present: BC = TSP and, at least: this is my stance, should be considered upon the work(s). TSP just released a brand new song. that’s the most of most of important of factors and feats right now. that’s what counts. now.
if BC’s dating miss Simpson or seeing her or sleeping with her: to be honest: i couldn’t care less and i can’t blame him either as she’s quite a nice looking woman. if miss Simpson’s got the artistic baggage or background like Chris and Yelena: i cannot tell. nor should i care. if miss Simpson and BC, even for just one night, just hit it off; why not? let him be. let her be. let them be.
i mean: we all bought Siamese Dream and MCIS and all… went to the concerts, got the t-shirts…
BC’s not only bought quite a mansion from these revenues on Chicago’s ‘gold coast’…
BC’s got quite some ‘rides’; selling off one Mustang now, though he owns or owned at least a kick-ass Porsche and at least a black Ferrari too…
this is to say: there’s BC the ‘ZERO’-hero rockstar on stage and there’s BC the rather loaded and rich rock-star with a private live; a private home and his cars…. his private love(s), too!…
whatever… i don’t mind, i don’t care…this is: as long as his work(s) don’t suffer from a status or whatever outside of the music…
so far: this doesn’t seem to be the case; though i’m still not out on my judgement of ‘A Song for a Son’…on a side-note:
this year: Nine Inch Nails declared to be refraining from touring and/or playing live shows for quite a while. the band even played a ‘last show’-concert, sorta.
then some sites (non-paparazzi even, mind you!) got word of NIN’s main man Trent Reznor’s marriage.
now: i won’t say it’s BECAUSE of his found true love and marriage and settling down or something he said he’d quit the touring deal…
it’s just that NIN’s been vocal about the non-tour/non-live shows and has been selling quite some (live)gear on ebay recently too, that this all might in fact, without too much of stretching of imagination, might be connected to Reznor’s private situation.
and still!: it’s Reznor’s private live and deal and dealing and dealings…
with and as NIN he gave the world as he’s done; now: there’s a new situation, maybe a new period, even…
loads of NIN-fans can’t deal with the decision to not tour or play live and blame the marriage or Reznor’s wife, even…
it’s so stupid and silly!…
Reznor’s a human being first and foremost. i had a splendid conversation with him and his father some years ago for the best part of 90 minutes backstage. Before then: i had known of course all of these ‘stars’ were and are human too. Then and there: so immediately, so genuine, so close: a former ‘idol’ of mine all of a sudden and in a split second, was human, just like me and that’s why we had this talk, that’s why for so long.
with Reznor being human, i wish him all the love and passion and bliss!
even if this means: no more NIN on record or no more NIN live, ever. and: i’m glad to have been there, at the very end of things, for now.now: for BC-
he’s human too. as for Reznor, so i’ve been and met BC, too. he’s human, too.
with his expensive house and his antiques he buys (check the video footage!) and his cars….
with his love and his loves…
i wish BC all the love and passion and bliss!
even if this means: no more TSP on record or no more TSP live, ever.rather than: TSP on record or live being half-cocked or something or below par because of his attention being somewhere else, like with a love/loved-one/fling.
of course: there’s a lot in me saying: BC, from what i’ve learned about miss Simpson, you could do better…
maybe, though: BC knows this too, but!: haven’t we all been there?!, honestly????!!!!—-
the two met up, hit it off and had one splendid night together and nothing more, for now.
made up to be: \"dating\"…
and even: if it were a real deal relationship?
why not? what do we know about BC, really? and even more so: what do we know about miss Simpson, really?nothing silly. nothing crazy. nothing stupid.
nothing even; as we don’t even know what happened or not.
nothing thus, then and there.if anything: just human behaviour.
so: please, just leave it. and: just leave BC’s private live alone. and: out of TSP and the TSP-discussion.
his house/home, his cars, his ladies: whatever.
it’s ‘A Song for a Son’ that matters. only.congrats Arthur!!!—
fair price, nice going, nice one!!!—
see the thread over @ the collecting forum for more of my reaction(s):
http://forum.spfreaks.com/viewtopic.php … start=1875cheers Arthur; so you tomorrow!!!
I’m back. My precious.
[/quote:3gmkf0q7]SO SO SO SO SO SO very very very deserving to win this dear Arthur!!!
this ONE show in The Hague, this one show, recorded too… at: Paard van Troje, or: Paard (short for the whole name of the venue, the one the venue currently uses too, by the way); no less than an awesome and astonishing 17+ years ago too!!!… > just to see this poster was a joy to me, finally, to see a poster from so long ago, from here, in The Netherlands; from a show too, even!, which was one of the very first i ever got when i branched out from the official releases collecting into the first steps of bootlegs and live-recordings… i recall the over-sped ‘RAWK’ boot clearly… still; hearing the band live then and there was bliss!!!…
dear Arthur: i can already see this neatly pro-framed like your other gems in your house! a highly valued and coveted addition to your collection and one of the truest ones too, in a special way, as this is your home town!!!
love your TAFH-award, love your MCIS-award, love your PI-poster, ADORE your Metro New Years Eve poster…, still, Arthur: this is back where it really belongs!…
enjoy! enjoy! enjoy!—
see you soon
see you this weekend, with loads more TSP- and other talk to follow; no doubt!great buy Arthur!!!
(i wanted to grab this too of course, learning you had your eyes on this one, i of course backed out!- although it’s a latter date one, my massive format Utrecht-poster (and: my Pinkpop-posters) are the same to me, like this one to/for you… this one is deservedly yours i thought! and i’m very, so very glad you won it!!!- congrats!)the official cds in a neat wooden rack on the wall…
the official vinyls in my vinyl wooden rack in my book case…
the valuable vinyls PLUS the demo tapes and other precious stuff, in a big vinyl carrying box…
my most precious souvenirs framed in my work-room…
my archive for the rest on book shelves in my work-room…
> the why of the vinyl carrying box?- in case of a fire: this is the one and foremost thing i will salvage
ow yeah: and there are like pretty much 800 cdrs spread around the work-room and archive, all in cases and all, featuring live-shows and demos and all; the ‘non-official’ collection, so to speak…
plus: posters and such on the walls of my work-room and a HUGE Adore store sign from France i still hold dear and cherish, also: on the wall in my work-room…
(Arthur’s seen it all i guess, haha!)and last but not least: the one item etched into/upon my body which is my TSP-inspired, but NOT-TSP-tattoo per se!, that is… ! always with me, stored safely in my right forearm…
i think the show was moved to the new date with added concerts to the tour.
so the tickets and poster for the show at The Paard are basically OK and ofthentimes not changed to the right date, though the correct date would seem to be the one spfc mentions.910804 and 911109 surely are the ones to get!!!—
the rest’s out there…
plus: not too special per setlist or whatever.
plus: his copies are from trades and 2nd gen at best…what i really LOVE!!!—
to see the flyer/poster and to see a new date added to the tourlist, even like 18 years AFTER the event!!!
plus: possibly even hear the show performed then and there, too!!!amazing! awesome!
good stuff Arthur…! great!
much appreciated, too!http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1991-08-04
http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1991-11-09 (updated with known recording…)
oh man! things sometimes move so fast on the net
Arthur:
like i said in private conversation, earlier:
– try to get as much info as you can…!!!a true taper > especially a SOURCE-taper!, would not mess up dates…
just to name an example of something to check…scans provided-
all you told me-
> this looks OK to me; seems to be a guy around at the right time, recording stuff, taking note of the songs he knew the titles of, the rest he just filled in with some random notes and all…
>>> i’ve been there and done that and it was just like this!…get the tapes, check the sets, check the known sets from the same tours…
if it’s new (and you’ll know pretty surely quite soon, just by checking this next to the available recordings!) then tadaah!—
otherwise: there’s no real damage done in terms of money or something…i mean:
> getting a hold of:
http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1993-09-14
http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1993-09-09
http://www.splra.org/wiki/index.php?title=Tsp1992-01-25
involved a leap of faith and some cash…
did prove to be worth the risk takenso….
go ahead and see what happens!
you know you’ve got us to check all the recordings and see if it’s something new or not!
somehow: i find it quite curious the dates mentioned are mostly for unaccounted for shows…
however: same applied to the above mentioned ones i found and those turned out to be genuine…
so: do your thing and let’s hear the stuff!!!
