Arthur

[Arthur]

Like I said, click on the track.

http://www.spfreaks.com/Default.aspx?pa … &track=326 (after clicking on Lie I Lie)

will give you \"Live 1989 version, unknown location.\".

I have stopped using \"fanmade\" names and try to use the official names. Either the working title when it appears on the release and is a unique track anyway (Chump is an example here) or the official title as it was released later (Mayonaise (acoustic) & Infinite Sadness as examples).

I hope I made no mistakes here…

PS I just had to do this, as it didn’t mix with either the Available On… section, either the Studio Recordings, or the Tour History… Now it is all connected and much easier to browse.

[Arthur]

Actually I wasn’t too happy with all that info anyway on the Mashed Potatoes set. I deleted it all and put some new text there. The other info is available when you click on the trackname.

[Arthur]

p.s: how would someone have obtained one of these awards originally? im curious…[/quote:acftvr72]
I checked a few names on some sales awards and found Karen Glauber (MCIS 8M award) and Jerry Brackenridge (MICS 8M and TAFH awards). A short google learned Karen Glauber is mentioned as President of HITS Magazine and somewhere else as Music Consultant and Executive Producer. Jerry also received sales awards for Freddie Jackson sales and George Thorogood & The Destroyers sales. To be honest, I have no idea what the link of both persons to the Smashing Pumpkins is, but they are definately music industry people…

[Arthur]

Anyone heard anything about Pumpkins net yet?[/quote:122ss5rn]
Welcome on board pierowmaniac. I’ve just send the administrator of ThePumpkins.net an email on behalf of the SPfreaks, asking him if he has news. Keep you posted.

[Arthur]

Sorry, typo… Should have been track 12. It’s corrected, thanks for pointing that out breun!

[Arthur]

\"The link will expire in 7 days and will be available for 100 number of downloads.\"

http://download.yousendit.com/DD8DCF2A551F3017

[Arthur]

Dating the tape

Our guess would be, when the tape is real, the tape is created between the latest recording date of any track and the earliest release date, this gives the following timeframe: 1993/04/?? (Spring 1993) (Soundworks Studio) and 1993/07/13 (Cherub Rock release). This would mean it is not intended to be spread as a hoax in the SP community. This timeframe also explains why Glynis was still intended to be a b-side at that moment. However, around 1994/10/?? or a bit later is also possible, as for sure all tracks were mastered by then.

When the tape is a hoax, it’s created in 2005.

Questions unanswered

-Why create an inhouse tape at Virgin in this specific running order with so many mistakes in the tracklist?
-Why not putting the other tracks like Soothe on it instead?
-Why master so many (b-sides) tracks at the same time in this period at Masterdisk Corporation, while Siamese Dream already exceeded budgets and release them in the period 1993/07/?? – 1994/10/??.
-Why wasn’t the official j-card of Virgin used?
-Where was the tape between the creation date in 1993/1994 and Spring 2007, when it appeared on the market?

To cut a long story short, we send an email to the seller with lots of questions, telling him we are very doubtful about this tape, thinking it was created just a few years ago. This was his response.

\"Hello Arthur,

My apologies for the delay in my reply. I have been on Holiday and then in and out of the office with a friend here from Australia and now my kids starting back at school. All three of your messages were here waiting for me. My friend \"Z\" who works with me obviously could not answer any of the questions etc.

First of all I must say that I am no less then completely impressed by your efforts to document this tape which on the other hand is not too surprising since you are a collector and running the SPfreaks website. As for your synopsis about when the tape was made is totally and completely impossible. It has been stored in a box along with the other tapes & CD’s for much longer then 2005. As I mentioned to \"X\", I received all of this stuff including many other Virgin items including the Stones, David Bowie, Jagger solo, Lenny Kravitz, Janet Jackson & so much more… It came from a heavy duty Virgin executive who cleaned out his storage room. It was truly a ridiculous amount of stuff… I was able to pick what I wanted and I left nothing behind… As I mentioned to \"X\", I still have some incredible stuff left…

I think that regardless of logic sometimes things are just not to be explained. I have found this with many promo only items, Cassettes, CD’s and records. I described it to the best of my ability given the circumstances and knowledge I had of the situation with the tape and were it originated.

I would like your further thoughts and also please let me know if I can provide any other details to help.\"

Conclusion

Though some extra questions are send, and answers are awaited, we now presume this \"B-Sides From Siamese Dream\" tape is no hoax, but a genuine Virgin inhouse promo tape. Keep you posted when we have more news…

Last but not least, we like to advise every collector to do proper research before buying expensive items… Remember the 1994 Earphoria promo?

[Arthur]

Further analysis of the tape

1. The tape itself is exactly the same style of tape used for Virgin inhouse demo’s around 1993. SPfreaks.com has a few examples online.
2. The lack of Virgin logo’s is very uncommon, there are no known inhouse tapes like this.
3. The j-card looks genuine, including yellow-ish spots on places where you would expect them.
4. Following the tape running order and it’s commercial releases:

01. – Obscured – Today UK CD single, vinyl and tape 1993/09/30
02. – Whirl – Pisces Iscariot US CD, vinyl and tape 1994/10/04 as Whir
03. – Kitty Kat (Distorto Mix) – Today UK CD single, vinyl and tape 1993/09/30 as Hello Kitty Kat
04. – Apathy – Today UK red vinyl 1993/09/30 as Apathy’s Last Kiss
05. – Blew Away (Version #1) – Disarm UK CD and vinyl 1994/03/22
06. – Blew Away (Version #2) – Disarm UK CD and vinyl 1994/03/22
07. – Pissant – Cherub Rock UK CD single and vinyl 1993/07/13
08. – French Movie Theme – Cherub Rock UK CD single and vinyl 1993/07/13
09. – Purr Shnickety – Cherub Rock UK vinyl 1993/07/13
10. – Glynis – No Alternative US CD and vinyl 1993/11/?? or 1993/12/??
11. – Kitty Kat – Today UK CD single, vinyl and tape 1993/09/30 as Hello Kitty Kat
12. – Frail And Bedazzeled – Pisces Iscariot US CD, vinyl and tape 1994/10/04

One way it looks like a random mix of tracks, on the other hand the Cherub Rock b-sides are kept close to each other. Cherub Rock has the earliest release date of all tracks, which is 1993/07/13.

Further analysis of the music on the tape

Here we came to both a few amazing discoveries, as well as a few very disappointing facts.

Amazing: the quality of recording is just outstanding, almost extreme. It means at least 2 things: the sources are of high quality, and same for the tape itself. All tracks reach in the 20,000 Hz, or above. Normally a tape would cut at 18,000 Hz, or lower. This means the tracks all came from a digital source or a studio master, and are definately not vinyl- or tape sourced. Also, all tracks are the mastered tracks (done by Howie Weinberg of Masterdisc Corporation as we know) and are the versions that were used on the official releases, mentioned above. There is no doubt about that.

Amazing also: Purr Snickety was digitally compared to the only known digital source from 2005/04/05. This online source is cut at 16,000 Hz, while, as stated above, the tape gives the listener 20,000+ Hz. We can call this Purr Snickety version the highest quality version around at this moment. At the same time we can say this proves the authenticity of the tape, as only a studio master could be used to create this tape.

Disappointing: Blew Away (Version #1) and Blew Away (Version #2) are exactly the same tracks, there is no difference between them. Not any. Presuming this is a genuine Virgin inhouse demotape, this can only be explained by a rather wild guess that the person recording the tape made a mistake in programming the machines, and putting 2 same tracks behind each other, while this person intended to record 2 different versions.

Disappointing also: Kitty Kat (Distorto Mix) and Kitty Kat are exactly the same tracks, with 1 slight difference. Distorto Mix is recorded with a 1,39 decibel higher level as the other version. This was only noticed on the digital analysis, a standard listening ear can and will not determine this. We can only guess why this happened. For the moment this fact creates a lot of confusion and adds to the idea of a hoax tape.

[Arthur]

Historical background per track, after listening and digital analysis of each track

Note 1: The digital analysing is done with a pro tapedeck and CoolEdit software.
Note 2: the given release dates are for the commercial releases, promo material from 1 or 2 months earlier can contain the same track also.

Obscured was recorded 1990/12/??-1991/03/?? Smart Studios, Madison (WI) during the Gish recording sessions and released for the first time on Today UK CD single, vinyl and tape 1993/09/30.

Whirl was recorded 1992/12/??-1993/03/?? Triclops Sound Studios, Georgia during the Siamese Dream recording sessions and released for the first time on Pisces Iscariot US CD, vinyl and tape 1994/10/04 as Whir. Whirl was an early working title in 1992, as can be seen for example on the Quiet, and 20 Other Songs tape from 1992/11/??.

Kitty Kat was recorded 1992/12/??-1993/03/?? Triclops Sound Studios, Georgia during the Siamese Dream recording sessions and released for the first time on Today UK CD single, vinyl and tape 1993/09/30 as Hello Kitty Kat. Kitty Kat was an early working title in 1992, as can be seen for example on the Quiet, and 20 Other Songs tape from 1992/11/??.

Apathy was recorded 1992/12/??-1993/03/?? Triclops Sound Studios, Georgia during the Siamese Dream recording sessions and released for the first time on Today UK red vinyl 1993/09/30 as Apathy’s Last Kiss. It appeared on CD for the first time on Today JP 1994/01/26. This is (to our knowledge) the first time this track is OFFICIALLY labeled by it’s early working title.

Blew Away was recorded 1993/04/?? (Spring 1993) Soundworks Studio, Chicago (IL) and released for the first time on Disarm UK CD and vinyl 1994/03/22. It’s first appearance on tape is 1994/01/19, on a HUT promo tape called Disarm, featuring all the b-sides from every format of the UK Disarm single.

Pissant was recorded 1992/12/??-1993/03/?? Triclops Sound Studios, Georgia during the Siamese Dream recording sessions and released for the first time on Cherub Rock UK CD single and vinyl 1993/07/13. No known earlier promo’s on any format.

French Movie Theme was recorded 1992/12/??-1993/03/?? Triclops Sound Studios, Georgia during the Siamese Dream recording sessions and released for the first time on Cherub Rock UK CD single and vinyl 1993/07/13. No known earlier promo’s on any format.

Purr Shnickety (misspelling of Purr Snickety) was recorded 1992/12/??-1993/03/?? Triclops Sound Studios, Georgia during the Siamese Dream recording sessions and released for the first time on Cherub Rock UK vinyl 1993/07/13. No known earlier promo’s on any format. It’s first (and only) digital appearance was on DSP’s like iTunes, Real/Rhapsody and Napster (amongst many others) on 2005/04/05. This fact proved to be very important in determining if the tape is genuine or a hoax.

Glynis was recorded 1993/04/?? (Spring 1993) Soundworks Studio, Chicago (IL) and released for the first time on No Alternative US CD and vinyl (and tape? unknown…) 1993/11/?? or 1993/12/??. The fact that it was known already in 1993/10/?? that Glynis was not intended to be used as a b-side was very confusing at first. Why call the tape B-Sides Of Siamese Dream with Glynis on it?

Frail And Bedazzeled (misspelling of Frail And Bedazzled) was recorded 1992/12/??-1993/03/?? Triclops Sound Studios, Georgia during the Siamese Dream recording sessions and released for the first time on Pisces Iscariot US CD, vinyl and tape 1994/10/04.

[Arthur]

For your information, both the SQL database and the website lay-out have been adjusted pretty nicely for this new SPfreaks Pricing Guide feature. Thanks to RedWolf!

http://www.spfreaks.com/Default.aspx?pa … &item=1878

That’s a first example of how it works. All available fields are filled in now, so they show on the website. The webmasters can play around with them, show all of them on the site, don’t show them on the site, or show the text \"\". Extremely easy to use. And it works independently per item! Well, whatever, tech thingy for the webmasters.

Well, let me explain anyway. It means 1 item can only have Price Mint and Price Excellent only, while another item can have Price Excellent and Price Very Good and Price Good only. We have left \"Collector price (approx)\" there for those items that are 1 of a kind. It will not be used on items that can be graded Mint, Excellent etc. Fair and Poor gradings can be used anyway when they are appropriate.

Another (silly) example here: http://www.spfreaks.com/Default.aspx?pa … ILS&item=3

Anyway, in the upcoming times you’ll hopefully see these fields being used. I hope this new feature will be to your likings and your collecting needs, and will make this SPfreaks experience even more fun for you.

And now, bring in the (updated) pricelists!

[Arthur]

cool, huh? (ok, nevermind…)[/quote:34oztatf]
We do mind Cool As Ice Cream, this info is maybe small, but very worthwhile. There are a few Gish vinyls to upload still from the scanning session last weekend, I’ll try not to forget to mention this info there. Remind me when I do forget, please.

To all of you, THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!! for your efforts, scans, pics and info! You make the very existence of SPfreaks, and together we kick ass! Yeah!

[Arthur]

Black Cherub Rock 7" T/P recently (w/i 3 months or so) went for $565 US.[/quote:3px43dsr]
Thanks manillascissor! I put that as a reminder here: http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=1881

[Arthur]

33 and 1979 for me.

Oh, and hi all! I just joined. (I was on Listessa long, long ago, Sven pointed me here.)[/quote:1s9y0koe]
Hi to you breun, have fun here!

[Arthur]

Thanks. For the moment I gave them an entry anyway, as I presume Shawn and Aaron know what they are talking about. And given the fact a Rocket black vinyl test press has surfaced… it makes sense to me.

The good news is, I think I have uploaded all Smashing Pumpkins 7 inches. They can be found here:

http://www.spfreaks.com/Default.aspx?pa … NDEX&cat=2 (put the \"Format\" search field to <7\" Single> and it will return \"There are 38 items found.\").

I have changed and added quite a lot there.

-Format (only the inch sizes to choose from)
-Release code (color of vinyl added)
-Amount pressed (based on Shawn/Aaron’s info, when estimated it is mentioned in the Extra Information field)
-Release dates of Siamese Singles set to July 1994, test pressings to June 1994. I have asked around and it was known that just before the 1994 tour ended in August/September 1994, this box set was released. This makes sense timeframe-wise as Disarm single was released March 1994 and Picses Iscariot in October 1994.
-Lots of Extra Information added.
-Many (not all) studio Location(s) added

Now we need to wait for the extra Pricing fields (Price Mint Condition, Price Excellent Condition, Price Very Good Condition and Price Good Condition) and the updated valuation of those items. When any of you has more info or corrections on the 7\" part, don’t hesitate to post it here!

Meanwhile I will continue uploading the last vinyl from the scan session of last Saturday, amongst them a pretty cool promo pack of Light Into Dark…

[Arthur]

nevermind… they’re .rar… and i don’t have winrar… so individual downloads for me i guess… [/quote:hq76yb7l]
http://www.rarlab.com/download.htm (free winrar in all world languages, most probably also in bracknell english slang )

[Arthur]

are they just small packages of songs that all need to be downloaded to have all of the songs?[/quote:3bve4us3]
Yes.

[Arthur]

Here you go lilkitn, don’t listen to Superlordspamulon. With him you get nowhere.

Mashed Potatoes, to download 1 song by 1 song on here:

http://www.rspaa.org/rspaa/Miscellaneou … d+Potatoes

And by package here:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GMPRXI90
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YZX5GKCR
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=JSC8HP03
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EX142EVD
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7EBK3YR3
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZRFL5I0E
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W6N9GBQI
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9WY7YQ77

Hopefully 1 of them works for you.

And Superlordspamulon… have fun listening to those kick ass songs also!

[Arthur]

Anyone seen "There it goes" from 1988? I found it on the audio section of the SP site, and just found it on YouTube this morning. I just love that song, too bad they didn’t officially record it… it’s supersweet.

Kit’n[/quote:2v7z9ga7]
Yup, they did record it. It’s track 3 on the Mashed Potatoes set ( http://www.spfreaks.com/?page=COLLDETAILS&item=282 ), recorded in 1988 – Billy’s father’s home studio, and kinda not-so-officialy-but-anyway it’s available for download on some places as you might know.

[Arthur]

Meanwhile I’m working my ass off to have all known 7 inches on the SPfreaks site. Some questions about the Siamese Singles occur, maybe 1 of you guys knows this.

1. Rocket
SPFC states nothing about a 7\" test pressing for Rocket.
Shawn/Aaron state: \"Rocket peach vinyl TEST PRESS Hut Records ~10 copies\"
SPfreaks shows this: http://www.spfreaks.com/Default.aspx?pa … &item=1115 (it’s black!)

Is there a peach colored test pressing for Rocket besides the black one?

2. Cherub Rock, Today and Disarm
Shawn/Aaron state: \"Siamese Singles 4×7\" TEST PRESSING (all 4) Hut Records ~10 copies\"

Obviously we got the black vinyl Rocket test pressing on our website, I presume there will be black test pressings for those other 3 also. Has any of you seen them?

[Arthur]

I contacted the seller to thank him for the kind words for SPfreaks, and wished him luck on the sale (which I presumed he was forced to with bleeding heart). This is his response.

\"thank you very much and yes it really sucks selling it. My son even came to me yesterday and said that I could hang it in his room if I wanted. It was very cute. Its for the better good and the music is all that really matters. I can’t wait to see them in November. thanks again

– fallingflower\"

[Arthur]

Shawn already answerred that he would love to help.

[/quote:3qn7djmx]
Both you and Shawn are just awesome! 1,000,000 kuddos to you 2!

Let’s see if Aaron can be involved too, just to share the tasks and make it an easier job for each of us.

Meanwhile I contacted RedWolf and he promised to build the 3 extra fields, and change the existing field to Price Mint Condition. He thinks it can be done by the end of the week. I will keep you updated on that part.

[Arthur]

Where did you hear this, about Billy Corgan stopping the auction?[/quote:14fpu7e3]
Can’t tell much I’m afraid, as it was 1 of those rumours going around at that time. I’m sure you read/heard this also. As the second part (Billy doesn’t want any copies to be on the free market) is pretty true & common knowledge as far as I know, that rumour about Billy buying it back was the most attractive to me.

But again, can we stick to the subject of this thread please? You’re happily invited to start up a new thread about the Machina II vinyl and all, but I’m no good source for any vinyl. I’m no collector of it you see… (However, you can ask me anything about South American CD releases and Asian CD releases… )

[Arthur]

and i believe Machina 2 was gong for over $1000 dollars when it was on ebay that one time… before it was pulled off. it may have gone for considerably mroe if it had been allowed to continue…[/quote:2cezfmfr]
Make that 10,000 US$. It was withdrawn from eBay as Billy Corgan bought it back from the seller if I’m right. He absolutely didn’t want any copy to be on the free market. But we are not discussing MII here, we are discussing SPfreaks becoming the new comprehensive Price Guide here, starting with the Smashing Pumpkins 7 inches. Who can help? Please?

[Arthur]

And even the black vinyl has the same matrix codes… It was pressed in 2006 somewhere you think huh… At that moment they still used the same moulds, funny.

[Arthur]

i’m not sure if it’s interesting to have price estimates for the worst conditions (fair and poor). does anyone care about the value of a wrecked i am one 7"? and how would one decide how much an almost unplayable i am one 7" with a ruined sleeve is worth, taking into account that most collectors aren’t really interested in an item like that? doesn’t seem easy to me, but i might be wrong. maybe there’s an easy rule for deciding these prices.

this is just how i see it. if someone thinks it’s useful to have prices for 6 conditions, then let nothing stop you.[/quote:xvy7yezs]
I’m with you. It would all be 1-5 bucks anyway, common knowledge. The other 4 grades can stay.

[Author]

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