Sven

[Sven]

before this thread totally derails

1-

for Zeitgeist you must know JC and BC spent quite some time in the studio and rehearsal space jamming out riffs and drums and the like-
of course (i don’t know) there might be TRUE demos on acoustic from BC or jammed demos (akin to the BGD I) or whatever from Zeitgeist-
as much as I know BC and JC – the tape’s always running, so I guess it’s all recorded-
still: I’ve heard and know and feel too !!! a lot of Zeitgeist pre-recording the album per se (which was NOT done live and per session and thus tracked et al) was done in a free-flow of inspiration-
so-
just as per BGD I I guess demos from the Zeitgeist album tracks might amount to BC and JC riffing and drumming up and down and against eachother and all of a sudden hitting a groove…
then weeks later taking THAT groove into a song…

somehow-
sure-
BC DID make some \"DEMO\" scratch recordings for some tracks off of Zeitgeist-
Some others just came about- I GUESS!!!!!
But that’s it-
Following Zwan and whatever you make from that band – the free-flowing inspiration (same in TFE and/or JCC) and movement and all WAS carried on between BC and JC early on after Zwan and further more into TSP-
BUT- with ONE major difference- NOW it wasn’t to be like a collaborative effort between a band or something anymore (like the Zwan melt-down), but between just the two of them!!!! (and possible the producers et al).

so-
why demo the shit out of a song?!
let’s see what happens?
that’s how the major part(s) of Zeitgeist was (were) made into what these are now…
so-
don’t expect full demos of all songs popping up soon as the method of working on material is/was kinda diferent this time around—

2-

Don’t call it \"demos\" and there’s a lot in store-
From all era’s the Pumpkns have been active the tape the most of the time has been rolling on and on.
Expect to hear this?
Nope!
Something from this?
Chances are few—

Why?
Because it’s just rehearsel stuff, practice, whatever-

You just won’t wanna see that stuff out there-
That’s not a good idea!

Good idea?!
Maybe it’d be cool to see if Frank Q. would be able to piece together a torrent or download of some kind of like-

Rehearsel One (MCATIS era), Rehearsel Two (MCATIS era), Soundcheck live, Studio Rehearsel One, Two, Three, whatever, Studio Take One, Take Two, Take Three…

Of let’s say—

The riff that ended up to be-
– The Aeroplane Flies High
or
– The End is the Beginning is the End

You know-
Riffs that had been like moving around somewhere in practice, in rehearsals, in soundchecks and then went on to be a song and got released-
The full flow of event-
Now THAT would be why I guess an Archive position proves its merit-
As per then-
You get the whole lineage—

3-

For the new songs and demo and recording process-
Just wait and see what BC comes up with-
With help from whomever-
Just wait and see-
Keep eyes and ears glued to TSP.com-
And you will see and hear!—-

[Sven]

THe last one that hit eBay, how much did it go for. 200-300 dollars, can you remember that ?[/quote:3sekwycc]
Yeah, way over 200 if I’m right. It has never been different, it was always very expensive. After all, it is their first CD single.[/quote:3sekwycc]

errr—

i totally agree with Arthur here-

but, err—

what happend to the way I used to deal way back when????

sure-
i could wait for an auction and pay top dollar and stuff—

or-
i coukd go out and try to find the stuff-

how?
meet other people online, check with them, their offline outlets and stores-
do the same in your country, swap stuff, get this for this person; he will try to see what he or she can find for you-

i was in Brussels, Belgium two weeks ago-
i did mention it here-
dead center there’s a record store that was then selling the SIYL 12" promo-

stuff like that-
that how I got my SIYL 12"-
how I got my other gems-

even more so-
way way way way more effort went into my getting the demo tapes and stuff-

still-
from the uk and befriending peeps online-
i got some items-
as via the USA-
as they did from me-
as Holland got some special stuff too which was readily available here in store(s)-

now-
We stll don’t know the numbers for the Siva CS of the Siva CD, both AUS, but-
Australia is kinda like HUGE!!!!
So – common knowledge says-
It’s not gonna be like 100-1000 only….
So-
There are bound to be copies somewhere!

now-
Get to work if you want one!!!!

how?
ha!

this anecdote from my collector’s history might be kinda "cool" and/or may serve as a testament-

one time-
as a collector-
i had all i needed and wanted-
per my idea of collecting-
just not the demo tapes-

per my research i found a guy with a copy of the TSP demo tape-
the first one that is-
as per then I had a one on one dub on cd of the TSP tape to listen to-
he however told me this tape was dubbed over per accident by his little sister-
so-
this tape had Michael Jackson on one side / TSP on the other-
still-
I bought it, for a genuine ok price-
a few weeks later, through the same guy and some mails and calls-
I found a guy with an original tape-
(turned out to have been signed way back when too!!!)
The "Jackson" tape I sold on, without taping over Jackson (nobody would have noticed on my decks)
The signed tape is a priced gem now in my collection-

What I am trying to say is-

Both guys were from Chicago, close to TSP? NOPE!
These guys were close to music in THOSE days!
As such and thru bands from then I found them-
And found these tapes.

So-

Don’t wait for eBay-
Think for yourself and how it works-
And get a move-on!

It works!
Still!

So-

Do your best and there will be even more stuff popping up….

I mean-
Who would have thought I’d have a very old demo from a somewhat obscure band we all don’t know about somewhat between The Marked and TSP on my PC (one track only) – which only came about my deep deep deep deep deep research into those areas??

I mean-
Why should or WOULD a guy from The Netherlands OWN a tape, THE TAPE (for as much as we know as per still now, untill Frank Q tells me he has the master in the Archive – BC told me he didn’t, that’s why I gave him a dub on CDR from the tape) featuring the VERY FIRST EVER TSP RECORDNG (as per BCs own admission and recognition and more and that’s why he told me immediately then and there, as via taking me apart a little: I don’t have this; Sven: this IS the very first song we EVER did…) ….

I mean-
This is NOT meant to compliment myself-
As it’s been an accomplishment of chance, vision, effort et al…

But-
This IS to say-

If I can to THAT-

Surely in getting to know peeps down under-
You can unearth a Siva CDS or CS!!!!!

How?-

OK- one hint then-

I didn’t exactly peruse of use the TSP-communtiy-
Why would I?
Looking for the demo tapes?!
These where like sold at shows with like Jane’s Addiction and My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult-
So-
That’s how-
Move beyond and get beyond your expectations

That’s all –

Good luck!!!!

[Sven]

Scarcity or \"relative\" scarcity makes the price…

We just don’t know how many of the CDRs are out there, do we?
For the Untitled Pop Mix that is?!

So-
When it never pops up on an auction or something – if fetches loads of cash-
Then more pop up-
Thus- the price tends to drop-
Drop to the \"market\" value at hand-

If someone would be there to come forward with pics and accounts and all and tell us there are like 10.000 of these cdr’s prices would drop even further-
If someone would be there to come forward with same evidences and tell us there are like only 100 of these, prices even might go up-

In not knowing how or why-
It’s always tricky to value-

Plus-

When the original Earphoria promo hit the auctions et al it was VERY expensive-
Then we learned there only 1.000 promo copies of the original one-
So prices didn’t exactly drop (inviting bootleggers in even!!!)-

It’s always a case of wait and see-
But I just don’t get the GLOW stuff-
There are SO fucking many promos for this kinda stuff; why these prices???????
In about two years time you pick this up for one dollar somewhere for sure-
As this was and still is a massive campaign-

Another thing, right?
Massive campaign and territory next to small promo effort/small country/small outlet numbers-
The Australian stuff is kinda always rare-
France might be rather large country- there aren’t THAT many media outlets there- so true DELABEL promos almost never hit the 200+ mark, hence: rare stuff-
In the UK stuff tends to fetch higher numbers-
The US even higher-

So calculate those factors in-
And you still know nothing-
But you DO know-
It all figures into value…

[Sven]

cool!!!!

great stuff and effort!!!

do you still need: (t)there magazine?
an art mag with handwritten pages of txt by BC and pix by Yelena?

[/quote:3u38xi40]
years ago, i’ve had the scans from the photos / text. very nice.
but lost them at a computer-crash. all in digital heaven.

i think the magazine is still available at the (t)here-magazine website.[/quote:3u38xi40]

this one I can dig out easily-
as it is somewhere in my wall of books between my art books section-
(ha- Arthur’s been at my place and kinda knows what it looks like)

so-
do you need it?
then I will scan those pages from (t)here within the next month or so?!
lemme know!
thnx.

[Sven]

^^ that’s a really cool cd sven! as one of a kind as it gets. you guys have some very rare stuff. here is what i can come up with

daphne descends
true power. true faith.
Q101 machina II
perfect sweden cardsleeve
batman and robin german promo
[url:3abasbi9]http://www.spfreaks.com/default.aspx?page=COLLDETAILS&item=3060[/url:3abasbi9][/quote:3abasbi9]
Not really one of a kind… there must be several of them, only they didn’t appear on the market. So it’s fucking rare anyway for sure! And that Batman promo… I’m jealous! Never seen it before, and I want it badly! Be proud of it, dear some pumpkins! [/quote:3abasbi9]

Indeed-
According to the letter that came with the cd this was given/sent out as a present / business promo to an inner circle at/of Virgin Germany…
So there are bound to be several copies… somewhere between 50 and 100 maybe even.
However-
I’ve never seen another copy hit the market…
Strangely enough though the place/dealer where I picked this up from (and the price, ha!) has always made me wonder how this gem got there in the first place, not to say why the other copies haven’t popped up in the more marketable places…

Wait and see if another pops up-
Or make me an offer I can’t refuse…
No, wait- I just can’t…

[Sven]

ow yeah-

as far as I know-

on his passport it says Chamberlain….
somehow he has chosen to use the Chamberlin-moniker…

[Sven]

i remain true to my earlier post-

i too agree with Arthur-
BCs response does SEEM to be moving ahead too swift and whatever-
thus: to the outside, maybe, betraying or whatever JC and his ability and leaving-
as per: BC saying he’s not sad….

of course BCs very very very sad about it-
but- imagine- these guys have been/were SO close-
this was a long time coming I guess…
so BC has had his reasons to be sad before WE knew about it-
NOW he isn’t anymore-
NOW he’s over the sadness and with JCs blessing, he’s moving ahead, with Kerry producing (maybe even drumming on the demos?!)-
there HAS to be pain on both side and there IS pain I guess-
there’s no bad vibe though-
there’s no sadness though per se-
there’s one friend quitting and doing his thing-
there’s one friend doing his thing and moving along-
both are artists per se and deep down and need to create-
there’s massive respect mutually for sure-
there’s massive loss per se mutually-
and there’s massive refound freedom per se too!-

so, just let them be-

let’s see what JCC brings now-
let’s see what TSP brings now-

and let’s judge THAT-
the outcome-

if that’s sub-par- ok; then we will know more than enough-
for now-
let’s wait and see-
and keep with JCs spirit for the music-
which is the same as Bcs spirit for the music (just watch IAGW again!)-
in passion and commitment-
but JCs heart just wasn’t with the flow and vibe of BCs or TSPs-
shit happens-

let’s just see what they put out-
and judge that, shall we?!

or do you wanna jump on the Tinted Windows wagon?
now- THAT’s a sorry excuse for a talented musician as far as I am concerned!!!!

[Sven]

just sit still—-

wait and see what happens-

what happens with and to TSP and with whom-
what happens with and to JCC an with whom-

we JUST don’t know-

let the output talk-

we will take it from there-
at least i know i will-

[Sven]

in rare cds i guess i only have this one-

http://www.spfreaks.com/default.aspx?pa … S&item=553

still-

got some tapes et al too-
and thus quite a collection-
but just not a collector of those ‘rare’ cds I guess-
just got the one or two or something pieces that mattered to me per my collection i guess…

[Sven]

it is still weird, but yeah Sven- wait and see. its all we can do.

i and do hope they are truly on good terms Rose. the fact that they follow each other on their twitter sites makes me feel a bit better somehow.[/quote:2r6wdn6b]

sure >
peeps… IT IS strange…
and WILL remain strange to some degree….

however:
try to imagine::::
if music is your all and everything and true passion-
and a lot or almost all and everything seems to deviate from the music-
and/or distracts you from the energy and spiritual vibe you have with the music and this band-
be it BCs negativity or the fans or the commercial aspect or the Congress thing or how to plan a tour or to plan Era-Tours and then because of a law-suit not to be able to do that or other machinations of the business…
the energy runs dry sooner or later-
i guess-
at least: for JC it has, so it seems…
so-

strange as i may BE or SEEM-

i think it’s understandable-
and ok-
and totally ok at that-
rather have JC do this, than sit there, hit the drums like a robot without feeling OK with it and just being there, to be there…

[Sven]

i agree on the PI gold vinyl not being amazing but having clear vinyl doesn’t necessarily mean bad sound quality. The black colour is from a dye i believe, clear vinyl is the same but not dyed. also, having clear vinyl generally means it isn’t recycled bits of old vinyl redyed as sometimes happens with black records, but fresh stock.[/quote:11wou3te]

basically you ARE right-

however: i’ve got numerous clear/translucent vinyls.
all seem to lack punch and depth.
it COULD be poor mastering all along the way and across the board of course…
still: I feel picture discs (basically transparant vinyls) and translucent/transparant vinyls DO NOT sound as good as solid coloured vinyls, of any colour that is; be it black or whatever…
But that could be a matter of taste or something….

[Sven]

just to put the word out there-

I AM TOTALLY LOOKING FOR a BLACK vinyl UK press of Pisces Iscariot LP….

i’ve got the LP+7\" and the USA LP but both sound like total shit…
it’s gotta do with the translucent vinyl not being able to reproduce the same freq-response as massive vinyl….

for my turntable pleasure I’d LOVE a UK press on black vinyl…
still- somehow this press seems totally rare or something….

if you see one somewhere or whatever; lemme know!!!!!! via PM or something or my @smashingpumpkins.com address!!!! thnx….

also for those in Belgium-
the other weekend I was in Brussels…
just next to/off the Great Market/Grote Markt, there’s quite a messy record store with an awesome collection…. I spent a lot of money there!!!!
he also had the SIYL 12\" promo there!
i already have it and ran out of cash-
but it might be worth checking out- loads of singles and promos of other bands too- so some TSP might come in there too or something…
just a tip/hint!

[Sven]

cool!!!!

great stuff and effort!!!

do you still need: (t)there magazine?
an art mag with handwritten pages of txt by BC and pix by Yelena?

i have it somewhere-

plus: i have TONS of Archive mags still—-

time to go all of that is not with me-
still- rock mags, guitar mags, Dutch/Belgian reviews/clippings, what not-
it’s like one bookcase full of ordners et al of mags and clippings—

now THAT would take me some time-
i just thought of (t)here mag-
as that seemed kinda ‘rare’-
the rest can be checked-
but even making a list would be an awesome task

[Sven]

i have bought and had \"released\" bootlegs in the past-

for sure!
especially from 94-98 when the online world wasn’t as profilic as now.
heck- i was even heavily into the tape trading world back then!
i still have 100 tapes or something from those days!!!!

trouble is-
bootlegs can be cool-
back then they totally were; on a bootleg i first heard Drown for example-
or the slow/bluesy Rhino or the long Siva intro, etc, etc, etc…

but these recording are out there-
with total provenance back to the best and earliest copy/master available for free at Archive, torrents and other places-
now that Frank Q is working at TSP HQ/Archive there might even be more to see the light of day-

basically in this day and age, there’s no reason to buy these bootlegs no more-
still- if you like some Photoshopped artwork and maybe even not the best available recording (though there are some very good boots out there- i still remember the 3 Feet High one for example as being a quite good one; or those of the 1997 GM Place concert; or the 1995 Melkweg, Amsterdam concert) go ahead-

otherwise-
check Starla.org
check Archive.org
download the show and enjoy the music for free as TSP is ok with it-
and don’t give your money to some inscrupulous middleman-
and remember the text from the infamous white SD era (heart logo) back side-
remember where to put your hard earned money

[Sven]

i don’t feel a tad bit bad in sharing this with you now—-

backstage @ pinkpop festival when TSP had just reformed-
i had quite a long talk with JC-
he recognised me from previous meetings-
those had all been with my then 13-year long girlfriend-
at pinkpop i was alone-
so i told JC the relationship was over and why-
he sat us down and we had quite a conversation about the spirituality of life and art and passions-
spiritual issues and visions i totally shared with JC then and there and still-
we met again briefly backstage in Den Bosch later in the tour; very short time spent… but it was more than enough for us-
the spirit, the passion was there and met in the spiritual vibe-
i can only say-
JCs a spiritual mind, visionary, heart and soul in action!
this doesn’t mean BC is NOT!
this is just to say- JC feels and thus KNOWS when it’s no longer right to be somewhere spiritually…
this moment is now with TSP now-
as much as i regret the outlook from now on for TSP-
i totally understand where he’s coming from….
it’s a choice maybe more of us could/should make?!
it’s a choice that’s to be applauded…

plus-
makes you wonder-
assuming it’s not for the money-
how f-cking special bands and bonds like U2 and Pearl Jam – still standing strong together – are!
or: must be spiritually!!!!
i for me can’t even believe it’s only money for The Rolling Stones…
for RATM it WAS for example- it showed backstage (even on stage i guess again at pinkpop)
for Metallica i am not quite sure- i DO think there’s a lot of spiritual love there too between the guys…
that’s f-cking special!!!!

taking a moment to feel and make this hard choice like JC’s done-
it’s quite a deal!
i’m proud of JC he’s made HIS important choice!

hail JC
hail BC and TSP
be blissed…
s

[Sven]

to get back to the initial question-

i just don’t know-

i guess to me TSP was always a deal of people surrounding BC that mattered to the sound.

when JC overdosed and all in 1996 and the band was there for BC to carry on (with Matt) and DW and JI were there for BC to take TSP thru Adore and BCs loss of his mother and all – i guess this was more than ok to me. i’ve only seen TSP once with Matt on drums in 1997 @ rock werchter and the show was very strange (setlist wise) and all, but it felt right…

dw out and madm in felt right too-

reunion with just JC and BC felt strange first, but quickly clicked and felt ok-

now- i can just only say- wait and see for me- i just can’t say- to me TSP with only BC doesn’t seem like TSP to me know; however, the man might prove us all totally wrong and publish a redeeming album/EP/whatever which knocks us all off our feet- just wait and see…. i guess…

TSP has suffered a severe blow-
TSP might survive- we’ll see, right?
JCC will do a new album (and possible tour) so— wait and see-
And maybe we’ll see Matt Walker again drumming for TSP…
Somehow that doesn’t seem too strange to me in a way…

Wait and see?
I won’t just give up on BC—

[Sven]

http://usa.visa.com/personal/visa_bring … ndex.html#

here you can see the ad…

i kinda do not feel too happy about this—

(sssshhhtttttt—– we over at SPMM are looking into this… as to the how and why and all; we will see, but SPFreakies galore, pleazzzzzzzzz, don’t blab about it- there might be an open press release by VISA or something; or it could be \"special\" in a way and kept somewhat under wraps- as for now, we’re not even sure the band approved this use of ‘Today’ so errr… let’s see what happens… SPMM is on top of it… that’s for sure… hope one of us (but not me) will be able to shed some cool light on this issue soon… working on it as we speak…)

[Sven]

i guess there little to no point in uploading this commercial to youtube or anything—

still-

i clearly have in the front of my mind this-
\"Last year, I was offered heavy, heavy money to license [\"Today\"]. I actually turned down two huge, huge, seven-figure-plus deals last year for two songs…. At this point in my life, I don’t feel comfortable. Those songs are the reason I’m alive. If your music is not sacred to the point where it’s a really, really, really heavy decision about whether or not you would allow somebody else to exploit it, then what’s not for sale?\" — Bill Corgan, 2004

http://www.newsweek.com/id/105040

i just cannot believe he would do it now-
just can’t-
maybe this has to do with some legal shit with Virgin or something-
but damn!
this doesn’t smell right to me….

even-
just plain WRONG!

[Sven]

it is generally assumed numbers run to 24.000 – 25.000 i guess….

counting in fives – as there first pressing was sollicited as a 5.000 copies one, but turned out to be 15.000, maybe the 25.000 seems to be the one to go with…
now – the 25K number would be a cool one to own

[Sven]

no exclusive tracks-
nothing special in that case—-

still—
the cover is AWESOME!!!!!

this is still one of my most precious items….

this is a cool one – one of the best for me for sure

[Sven]

the set is awesome!
will be away the next weeks but then it’s time for a run thru

anyway-
I still think the Pearl Jam cds look better-
but ok – matter of taste-
hope this all sounds great
that’s all that matters…

damn!
what a set!
can’t wait to hear it

[Sven]

Bram knows and now the rest too and I don’t care I own a Zeitgeist advance promo watermarked cdr.
Somehow when I play the official cd next to this one – recently did with a friend on a Bang and Olafson top gear set — there’s a difference, somewhere, somehow…
I know — looking at the wavs and all this doesn’t make ANY sense-
Still: I play ZG from the advance and not the official release.
To my ears: it DOES sound not in a way less bad or better or anything else than just: different – more according to my taste…
Still – I think I am slowly going crazy…

[Sven]

damn, i love this emoticon! [/quote:2xzqfxl3]

the record’s awesome
the record got press whatever
the live shows i’ve seen were way above par
seeing this booklet
as a genuine bibliophile…. makes me kinda envious—-

GREAT FIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hadn’t seen one before!
Thnx for this pic!
Looking forward to more scans/pix!!

(which reminds me— I guess Arthur wants me to scan my Archive, hahahha….

[Sven]

i think i know who it is [/quote:1e0fflv3]

Who?

Sven or Della ? [/quote:1e0fflv3]

it wasn’t me for SURE

[Sven]

so this shirt is worth WAY MORE THAN THE VINYL???

does this shirt play music or does Billy and Jimmy pop out and perform I Am Won [/quote:3cd1x3c7]

bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this shirt is genuine as far as I can see it and know it—–

this shirt is WAY more rare than the vinyl—–

OK OK OK-
it’s overpriced!!!!!!!!!

still—-

on 1.000 vinyl 7"s
on (my estimate) > 100 shirts

the t-shirt is way more rare-

PLUS:::::::::
it’s a piece of history—
so yeah –
bullshit all you want: this IS a gem!

[Author]

Posts